Break The Chain

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan…

feminism fights for both sides…. MRA’s would have you think otherwise with their bullshit, however.

Mens Rights activists completely refuse to acknowledge male privilege and rape culture. If you consider yourself this, I hope its simply due to a lack of research of Mens Rights Activism.

Um, not really. That’s what they say, but actions speak much louder than words.  How about all of these things?  And don’t bring up any “no true Scotsman” or #notALLfeminst bullshit, because those are the same arguments that are attacked by feminists when it comes to men/MRAs, and besides being logical fallacies, would be extremely hypocritical.  Also, you are using an extremely myopic view of men’s rights, the same as if I said that all feminists were like TERFs or RadFems.

ACTUAL Mens issues are a part of feminism. 

MRA’s come together as a group of privileged people that are upset that people call them out on said privilege, and then these men, refuse to acknowledge any privilege exists.

People that actually give a shit about human rights and acknowledge male privilege, do not, call themselves Mens Rights Activists, because in doing so, you are completely ignoring the privilege in itself.

Well, unless you are going to tell me that, as a non-binary individual, I am a “privileged male”, then I can’t ignore it, can I? I do care about human rights, and I care about true gender equality, not retributive ideology. I agree that their is a very vocal subset of men’s rights activists that are shitheads, the majority are people who are equalists for both sides, and realize that men also suffer from legislative failures and societal issues. An attitude of “we have it worse” is a horrendous one to have when it comes to equality.

equalists on both sides are called feminists. You’re getting your words mixed up…..

And yes, i will say it, women have it worse than men. POC have it worse than white people and so on. No it is not a competition, but that is also something that is just very evident in our society.

Yes, let’s ignore the links that I just posted showing that feminists have fought against protections for men. Eualists on both sides are called egalitarians. I didn’t say no one had it worse than anyone else, I said that it is a horrible attitude to have, because it leads to exactly what has happened: ignoring issues because they belong to a more privileged group, and fighting against things that would help that group on the basis of that privilege. "Oppression olympics" have no room in true equality.

and actually i did begin reading the articles, but they were full of eye rolls.

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan…

feminism fights for both sides…. MRA’s would have you think otherwise with their bullshit, however.

Mens Rights activists completely refuse to acknowledge male privilege and rape culture. If you consider yourself this, I hope its simply due to a lack of research of Mens Rights Activism.

Um, not really. That’s what they say, but actions speak much louder than words.  How about all of these things?  And don’t bring up any “no true Scotsman” or #notALLfeminst bullshit, because those are the same arguments that are attacked by feminists when it comes to men/MRAs, and besides being logical fallacies, would be extremely hypocritical.  Also, you are using an extremely myopic view of men’s rights, the same as if I said that all feminists were like TERFs or RadFems.

ACTUAL Mens issues are a part of feminism. 

MRA’s come together as a group of privileged people that are upset that people call them out on said privilege, and then these men, refuse to acknowledge any privilege exists.

People that actually give a shit about human rights and acknowledge male privilege, do not, call themselves Mens Rights Activists, because in doing so, you are completely ignoring the privilege in itself.

Well, unless you are going to tell me that, as a non-binary individual, I am a “privileged male”, then I can’t ignore it, can I? I do care about human rights, and I care about true gender equality, not retributive ideology. I agree that their is a very vocal subset of men’s rights activists that are shitheads, the majority are people who are equalists for both sides, and realize that men also suffer from legislative failures and societal issues. An attitude of “we have it worse” is a horrendous one to have when it comes to equality.

equalists on both sides are called feminists. You’re getting your words mixed up…..

And yes, i will say it, women have it worse than men. POC have it worse than white people and so on. No it is not a competition, but that is also something that is just very evident in our society.

Yes, let’s ignore the links that I just posted showing that feminists have fought against protections for men. Eualists on both sides are called egalitarians. I didn’t say no one had it worse than anyone else, I said that it is a horrible attitude to have, because it leads to exactly what has happened: ignoring issues because they belong to a more privileged group, and fighting against things that would help that group on the basis of that privilege. "Oppression olympics" have no room in true equality.

egalitarianism is another group that consistently does not acknowledge privilege. I compare egalitarianism most to Libertarianism. It sounds kinda cool in theory, but then you realize its still capitalism.

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan…

feminism fights for both sides…. MRA’s would have you think otherwise with their bullshit, however.

Mens Rights activists completely refuse to acknowledge male privilege and rape culture. If you consider yourself this, I hope its simply due to a lack of research of Mens Rights Activism.

Um, not really. That’s what they say, but actions speak much louder than words.  How about all of these things?  And don’t bring up any “no true Scotsman” or #notALLfeminst bullshit, because those are the same arguments that are attacked by feminists when it comes to men/MRAs, and besides being logical fallacies, would be extremely hypocritical.  Also, you are using an extremely myopic view of men’s rights, the same as if I said that all feminists were like TERFs or RadFems.

also i have seen no inclusion of transgender men in the men’s rights activism movement 

I can’t imagine they have any interest in that.

A lot of the MRAs that I follow and talk to are transmen, or inclusive of transmen, so you are erasing their experiences and their involvement.

sounds like theres just a lot of people drinking the "feminists are evil" kool-aid.

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan…

feminism fights for both sides…. MRA’s would have you think otherwise with their bullshit, however.

Mens Rights activists completely refuse to acknowledge male privilege and rape culture. If you consider yourself this, I hope its simply due to a lack of research of Mens Rights Activism.

Um, not really. That’s what they say, but actions speak much louder than words.  How about all of these things?  And don’t bring up any “no true Scotsman” or #notALLfeminst bullshit, because those are the same arguments that are attacked by feminists when it comes to men/MRAs, and besides being logical fallacies, would be extremely hypocritical.  Also, you are using an extremely myopic view of men’s rights, the same as if I said that all feminists were like TERFs or RadFems.

ACTUAL Mens issues are a part of feminism. 

MRA’s come together as a group of privileged people that are upset that people call them out on said privilege, and then these men, refuse to acknowledge any privilege exists.

People that actually give a shit about human rights and acknowledge male privilege, do not, call themselves Mens Rights Activists, because in doing so, you are completely ignoring the privilege in itself.

Well, unless you are going to tell me that, as a non-binary individual, I am a “privileged male”, then I can’t ignore it, can I? I do care about human rights, and I care about true gender equality, not retributive ideology. I agree that their is a very vocal subset of men’s rights activists that are shitheads, the majority are people who are equalists for both sides, and realize that men also suffer from legislative failures and societal issues. An attitude of “we have it worse” is a horrendous one to have when it comes to equality.

equalists on both sides are called feminists. You're getting your words mixed up.....

And yes, i will say it, women have it worse than men. POC have it worse than white people and so on. No it is not a competition, but that is also something that is just very evident in our society.

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan…

feminism fights for both sides…. MRA’s would have you think otherwise with their bullshit, however.

Mens Rights activists completely refuse to acknowledge male privilege and rape culture. If you consider yourself this, I hope its simply due to a lack of research of Mens Rights Activism.

Um, not really. That’s what they say, but actions speak much louder than words.  How about all of these things?  And don’t bring up any “no true Scotsman” or #notALLfeminst bullshit, because those are the same arguments that are attacked by feminists when it comes to men/MRAs, and besides being logical fallacies, would be extremely hypocritical.  Also, you are using an extremely myopic view of men’s rights, the same as if I said that all feminists were like TERFs or RadFems.

also i have seen no inclusion of transgender men in the men’s rights activism movement 

I can't imagine they have any interest in that.

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan…

feminism fights for both sides…. MRA’s would have you think otherwise with their bullshit, however.

Mens Rights activists completely refuse to acknowledge male privilege and rape culture. If you consider yourself this, I hope its simply due to a lack of research of Mens Rights Activism.

Um, not really. That’s what they say, but actions speak much louder than words.  How about all of these things?  And don’t bring up any “no true Scotsman” or #notALLfeminst bullshit, because those are the same arguments that are attacked by feminists when it comes to men/MRAs, and besides being logical fallacies, would be extremely hypocritical.  Also, you are using an extremely myopic view of men’s rights, the same as if I said that all feminists were like TERFs or RadFems.

ACTUAL Mens issues are a part of feminism. 

MRA's come together as a group of privileged people that are upset that people call them out on said privilege, and then these men, refuse to acknowledge any privilege exists.

People that actually give a shit about human rights and acknowledge male privilege, do not, call themselves Mens Rights Activists, because in doing so, you are completely ignoring the privilege in itself.

Translation:”I don’t care about about animals who die for food, clothing, entertainment or testing, but if you dare feed your companion animal something that isnt meat and it could potentially hurt them, IM GONNA LOSE IT BECAUSE I CLEARLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANIMALS. That or i’m just hyper defensive.”

^^^ EXACTLY

So it’s becoming clear that we’re just going to have to explain this to every single carnist individually, because there doesn’t seem to be a lot of common sense or ability to do research amongst them…

No responsible caretaker is going to make major changes to their companion animals’ diet without thorough discussion with and approval from their veterinarian. A responsible caretaker will closely monitor their companion animal for any changes in health and behavior, and if it becomes apparent that a certain diet may not be the best course, they will change it until they find one that fits. All animals are not created equal. Some cats are okay with dairy, some not. Some cats can handle grains, some not. One of our cats was having bad reactions to shellfish. There’s just no set rule when it comes to animals’ diets. I mean there are animals who are considered herbivorous who will in rare circumstances consume meat. You just have to talk to a vet and figure out the best thing to do. Now obviously all cats need certain nutrients which are naturally found in meat, such as taurine and L-carnitine. But synthesized versions of these nutrients work just as well. Many conventional animal foods need to be fortified anyway because so many of the nutrients are destroyed during production (and they’re not starting off with very high quality ingredients to begin with). I know lots of people whose cats are in optimum health on a plant-based diet. And they have been for years. I’m not saying it works for all of them, but I’m definitely saying that it’s hypocritical for you to give a (misinformed) shit about other people’s companion animals whilst having nothing whatsoever to say about the actual serious abuse happening to billions of animals every second on a worldwide scale. I think your priorities are a little fucked.

Cats cannot chew vegetables properly. They don’t have the same teeth we do made for crushing vegetables. Feeding them a vegan diet is a choking hazard. Their digestive systems are made for digesting bones and hair. They do not have some of the acids in their saliva that we have that make us omnivorous. Yes, I have done my research, I have seen people try to feed even their snakes a vegan diet and they lasted for what, two-three months? It is pure abuse to feed a cat or carnivorous reptile a vegan meal. Sure, they might eat it or even like it, but the nutritional value they get out of it is next to zero. They may “seem fine” but they cannot tell you when they need to go to the vet, what they would like to eat, if they are having tummy pains, etc. cats could have a serious problem and like us, they won’t know until they feel pain. Dogs, by genetic pedigree, are carnivores. Not vegans, not omnivores, but carnivorous animals. Look at a dogs skull in comparison to a human skull and you will see that their teeth aren’t even close to the same as ours. Their anatomy, their behavior, their digestive system all tell us they are meat eaters. sources:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-carnivores-omnivores/ http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html http://www.catinfo.org http://www.veggieboards.com/forum/24-companion-animals/105748-possible-feed-snake-vegan-diet.html

Also, if you wouldn’t mind could you please source your information from UNBIASED RELIABLE sources instead of telling me to source my information?

And

anthonyvse

Hey hey woah well did you know I am boycotting most fast food restaurants and grocery stores for their poor treatment of animals Hey hey woah did you know I have seen the same videos you have, the ones where the chicks are thrown into the grinders and it made me sick to my stomach Hey hey woah did you know that me and my grandmother only buy from a trusted butcher and when the rest of my family goes out to eat we rarely even get anything? Did you know I have seen the same treatment of elephants and snakes and petting zoo animals for entertainment that you all have and it made me want to cry? Did you know I would be vegan if it weren’t for various health issues that I have, yet I still feed my pet dog and reptile a diet that is good for them? Assuming that I’m the son of satan or something because I don’t believe in vegan diets for pets is a really stupid thing isn’t it

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Dogs are absolutely 100 percent omnivores.

I have never heard of a dog reacting negatively to vegan food. As a matter of fact i’ve only ever heard they’re in great health from it. Did you know they have fruit treats for dogs? Not labeled vegan or anything, theyre just a standard treat. But a carnivore wouldnt be able to eat that………

I BUY FROM A TRUSTED BUTCHER AND ANIMALS IN VIDEOS MAKE ME CRY SO THAT MEANS I GIVE A SHIT. No, go away. Stop lying to yourself and pretending like you do. You care to your convenience. The amount of times ive heard “health reasons” listed as the reason for someone not being vegan is extremely high.

I don’t need to use or see videos of animals being killed to know that life is not property. The ‘treatment” of the animal is not the issue, thats for vegetarians. My issue is with the outright USE of animals. Get your shit straight and then come back to me when you decide to stop pretending like you care.

I struggle to understand what food you CAN eat if health reasons keep you from eating vegan. Because, you obviously wouldnt survive a very long time eating only meat, so that tells me that you’re eating some vegan foods such as vegetables or fruit…….

I have Klippel trenaunay webber syndrome, look it up. I had an eating disorder, now I have to eat a certain amount of certain foods to stay healthy.

Yes, your dog may ENJOY a fruit treat, but nutrition-wise, your dog isn’t getting the proper nourishment he needs and he isn’t able to act on his natural animal instincts. Feeding a dog even only dry food is super unhealthy, the amount of nasty stuff that goes in that is unspeakable.

Dogs need meat. It’s in their instinct, their genetic pedigree, their stomach acids and saliva determine it. So does their build. Their teeth are sharp, their jaws don’t move side to side like ours, they are built to hunt. Their digestive system even determines it.

I have a pet mouse. Think about feeding a mouse something like chicken or steak. Do you think he would survive for very long? Probably not.

Thank you for making assumptions about me before you even knew what was wrong with me.

i definitely won’t pretend to be an expert on KTWS, but it is somewhat ironic that i looked it up and  it gave a list of “famous people” who had been diagnosed, and one of them was Billy Corgan, a vegan. 

Did you literally not see me say I had/currently have an eating disorder lmao

you said "had." Not only that, you say you eat certain foods to stay healthy, neither meat or dairy are "healthy."

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan...

feminism fights for both sides.... MRA's would have you think otherwise with their bullshit, however.

Mens Rights activists completely refuse to acknowledge male privilege and rape culture. If you consider yourself this, I hope its simply due to a lack of research of Mens Rights Activism.

Translation:”I don’t care about about animals who die for food, clothing, entertainment or testing, but if you dare feed your companion animal something that isnt meat and it could potentially hurt them, IM GONNA LOSE IT BECAUSE I CLEARLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANIMALS. That or i’m just hyper defensive.”

^^^ EXACTLY

So it’s becoming clear that we’re just going to have to explain this to every single carnist individually, because there doesn’t seem to be a lot of common sense or ability to do research amongst them…

No responsible caretaker is going to make major changes to their companion animals’ diet without thorough discussion with and approval from their veterinarian. A responsible caretaker will closely monitor their companion animal for any changes in health and behavior, and if it becomes apparent that a certain diet may not be the best course, they will change it until they find one that fits. All animals are not created equal. Some cats are okay with dairy, some not. Some cats can handle grains, some not. One of our cats was having bad reactions to shellfish. There’s just no set rule when it comes to animals’ diets. I mean there are animals who are considered herbivorous who will in rare circumstances consume meat. You just have to talk to a vet and figure out the best thing to do. Now obviously all cats need certain nutrients which are naturally found in meat, such as taurine and L-carnitine. But synthesized versions of these nutrients work just as well. Many conventional animal foods need to be fortified anyway because so many of the nutrients are destroyed during production (and they’re not starting off with very high quality ingredients to begin with). I know lots of people whose cats are in optimum health on a plant-based diet. And they have been for years. I’m not saying it works for all of them, but I’m definitely saying that it’s hypocritical for you to give a (misinformed) shit about other people’s companion animals whilst having nothing whatsoever to say about the actual serious abuse happening to billions of animals every second on a worldwide scale. I think your priorities are a little fucked.

Cats cannot chew vegetables properly. They don’t have the same teeth we do made for crushing vegetables. Feeding them a vegan diet is a choking hazard. Their digestive systems are made for digesting bones and hair. They do not have some of the acids in their saliva that we have that make us omnivorous. Yes, I have done my research, I have seen people try to feed even their snakes a vegan diet and they lasted for what, two-three months? It is pure abuse to feed a cat or carnivorous reptile a vegan meal. Sure, they might eat it or even like it, but the nutritional value they get out of it is next to zero. They may “seem fine” but they cannot tell you when they need to go to the vet, what they would like to eat, if they are having tummy pains, etc. cats could have a serious problem and like us, they won’t know until they feel pain. Dogs, by genetic pedigree, are carnivores. Not vegans, not omnivores, but carnivorous animals. Look at a dogs skull in comparison to a human skull and you will see that their teeth aren’t even close to the same as ours. Their anatomy, their behavior, their digestive system all tell us they are meat eaters. sources:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-carnivores-omnivores/ http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html http://www.catinfo.org http://www.veggieboards.com/forum/24-companion-animals/105748-possible-feed-snake-vegan-diet.html

Also, if you wouldn’t mind could you please source your information from UNBIASED RELIABLE sources instead of telling me to source my information?

And

anthonyvse

Hey hey woah well did you know I am boycotting most fast food restaurants and grocery stores for their poor treatment of animals Hey hey woah did you know I have seen the same videos you have, the ones where the chicks are thrown into the grinders and it made me sick to my stomach Hey hey woah did you know that me and my grandmother only buy from a trusted butcher and when the rest of my family goes out to eat we rarely even get anything? Did you know I have seen the same treatment of elephants and snakes and petting zoo animals for entertainment that you all have and it made me want to cry? Did you know I would be vegan if it weren’t for various health issues that I have, yet I still feed my pet dog and reptile a diet that is good for them? Assuming that I’m the son of satan or something because I don’t believe in vegan diets for pets is a really stupid thing isn’t it

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Dogs are absolutely 100 percent omnivores.

I have never heard of a dog reacting negatively to vegan food. As a matter of fact i’ve only ever heard they’re in great health from it. Did you know they have fruit treats for dogs? Not labeled vegan or anything, theyre just a standard treat. But a carnivore wouldnt be able to eat that………

I BUY FROM A TRUSTED BUTCHER AND ANIMALS IN VIDEOS MAKE ME CRY SO THAT MEANS I GIVE A SHIT. No, go away. Stop lying to yourself and pretending like you do. You care to your convenience. The amount of times ive heard “health reasons” listed as the reason for someone not being vegan is extremely high.

I don’t need to use or see videos of animals being killed to know that life is not property. The ‘treatment” of the animal is not the issue, thats for vegetarians. My issue is with the outright USE of animals. Get your shit straight and then come back to me when you decide to stop pretending like you care.

I struggle to understand what food you CAN eat if health reasons keep you from eating vegan. Because, you obviously wouldnt survive a very long time eating only meat, so that tells me that you’re eating some vegan foods such as vegetables or fruit…….

I have Klippel trenaunay webber syndrome, look it up. I had an eating disorder, now I have to eat a certain amount of certain foods to stay healthy.

Yes, your dog may ENJOY a fruit treat, but nutrition-wise, your dog isn’t getting the proper nourishment he needs and he isn’t able to act on his natural animal instincts. Feeding a dog even only dry food is super unhealthy, the amount of nasty stuff that goes in that is unspeakable.

Dogs need meat. It’s in their instinct, their genetic pedigree, their stomach acids and saliva determine it. So does their build. Their teeth are sharp, their jaws don’t move side to side like ours, they are built to hunt. Their digestive system even determines it.

I have a pet mouse. Think about feeding a mouse something like chicken or steak. Do you think he would survive for very long? Probably not.

Thank you for making assumptions about me before you even knew what was wrong with me.

i definitely won't pretend to be an expert on KTWS, but it is somewhat ironic that i looked it up and  it gave a list of "famous people" who had been diagnosed, and one of them was Billy Corgan, a vegan. 

theres actually a person out there claiming to be a Green Vegan anarchist, and is ALSO a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST……

This is a real thing. THIS IS A REAL THING.

Holy hell, there is so much laughable contradictory in that.

So you can’t be vegan and fight for gender equality?

i dont know you, so i cant tell if this is sarcasm or not...

VEGETARIANS ENSLAVE AND MURDER MORE ANIMALS THAN MEAT EATERS AND ARE A BIGGER PART OF THE PROBLEM AND NOTHING TO DO WITH VEGANISM,ANIMAL RIGHTS OR THE SOLUTION. STOP ASSERTING YOUR IDIOCY AND WELFARIST IGNORANCE CRAP OF THEM ALL BEING ONE STEP AWAY FROM VEGANISM.

Calm down please. I’m not defending vegetarianism, I know as well as anyone that it’s certainly not good enough if someone’s goal is to support animal rights. Vegetarians absolutely participate in a large amount of cruelty, and many of them do ignore that and think it’s good enough. Many of them are completely unaware/uncaring of the fact that they are still supporting death and cruelty. And that should be called out, I agree.

However, I live in the real world where a lot of people find it easier to transition to vegetarianism first. Some people simply are not in a position to go vegan but they are still interested in animal rights and want to do what they can. My best friend avoids meat and is beginning to cut out dairy but she’s not 100% financially responsible for her own food and her parents disapprove of veganism. Is she really a bigger problem than someone who happily eats meat, dairy, and eggs and doesn’t give a second thought to the animals who suffered for it?

I certainly didn’t go vegan overnight, it took me several months to fully transition. Mentally, it’s really easy to see the cruelty happening and make the decision that you don’t want to participate in it. But it’s a difficult adjustment for a lot of people, including myself. It’s hard to find good replacement items for favorite foods, it’s hard to learn where to shop and what brands to buy, it’s hard to learn about hidden animal ingredients. It’s hard to deal with objection from people in your life who are uneducated about veganism.

I’m not defending vegetarianism. But I just think that vegetarians all have the potential to be vegans if they are educated properly. Obviously there’s a reason they’re vegetarian, right? Whether it’s for health, environmental, or ethical reasons, a significant portion of them would very likely go vegan (and expand their reasoning to include ethical concerns) if they received the education and support from the vegan community to realize they needed to take things further. I’m just not understanding the problem you have with my post…vegetarianism is a good first step for someone interested in animal rights.

yet again you assert your dated idiocy. all you do is look at creating excuses and reasons not to be vegan when the amount of vegan products are widespread and there is no logical reason whatsoever to cut out meat before dairy or poultry. and if idiots like you are doing the ”education” you will clearly push them towards vegetarianism instead of the logical direction to veganism without the backward step of vegetarianism that murders more animals than meat eating

Could you please provide a source for your assertion that an ovo-lacto vegetarian diet contributes to more harm than a diet which includes meat, eggs, and dairy?

Not once have I said that vegetarianism is an appropriate end-goal for anyone who is capable of going vegan. I just don’t live in a fantasy world where everyone is capable of going vegan overnight. People need to do research first, sometimes it’s easier for people to transition slowly. Is it preferable that people transition over the course of a few months, or not at all? A lot of vegetarians are our allies, they just don’t have enough information or support to realize why veganism is the most ethical option. As a vegan I try to provide that information and support to them and anyone else interested in animal rights because I know for damn sure I wouldn’t have gone vegan without the education and support that came from some of my favorite people on this very website. I’m not going to hold anybody’s hand and coddle them and tell them it’s fine to remain vegetarian if they have the option to do otherwise…I’m just not seeing the point in setting unrealistic expectations for people. People need time to make major transitions and there’s nothing I can do about that, I’m just going to do my best to support and educate them in the meantime to help them along their journey. People arrive at moral decisions at different rates.

I’d also like to argue against your assertion that vegan products are widespread. I spent some time in South Dakota last year and while I was there I was able to find a single brand of nondairy milk, but no other vegan substitute products. There was adequately available produce to meet my needs but realistically, if someone were presented with the option to either keep their current diet, or go vegan but have no vegan substitute foods to satisfy their very real cravings, what do you think people would choose? Taste is no reason to continue participating in animal exploitation but a lot of people just don’t see it that way.

Again, I’m not defending vegetarianism. But I don’t think the solution to the problem is to demand that every single person cease the consumption of animal products immediately, with no allowance for reasonable transition. It’s just going to turn them off the cause and make veganism seem extreme and overwhelming.

I also don’t appreciate being called an idiot. Aside from the fact that my worth should not be based off my intelligence (and your continual usage of ableist slurs really isn’t endearing you to anyone), we’re on the same side here. There are many different ways to spread the message of veganism but arguing amongst ourselves isn’t going to help anything. I’m not an apologist vegan and I promote veganism as an end goal for all who are able to do so. I’m simply allowing for a reasonable transitory step because I realize that there are many people who will find the transition difficult for a variety of reasons.

this person is seriously a MENS RIGHTS ACTIVIST "vegan anarchogreen communist." 

You definitely shoudn't even bother responding to this person. Regardless of my feelings on animal welfare. This person is seriously so twisted that they actually claim to be a vegan and an anarchist while being an MRA.......  What a clown.

It isn’t just disrespect. It is violence.

Don’t be violent.

Don’t be a dick.

Translation:”I don’t care about about animals who die for food, clothing, entertainment or testing, but if you dare feed your companion animal something that isnt meat and it could potentially hurt them, IM GONNA LOSE IT BECAUSE I CLEARLY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT ANIMALS. That or i’m just hyper defensive.”

^^^ EXACTLY

So it’s becoming clear that we’re just going to have to explain this to every single carnist individually, because there doesn’t seem to be a lot of common sense or ability to do research amongst them…

No responsible caretaker is going to make major changes to their companion animals’ diet without thorough discussion with and approval from their veterinarian. A responsible caretaker will closely monitor their companion animal for any changes in health and behavior, and if it becomes apparent that a certain diet may not be the best course, they will change it until they find one that fits. All animals are not created equal. Some cats are okay with dairy, some not. Some cats can handle grains, some not. One of our cats was having bad reactions to shellfish. There’s just no set rule when it comes to animals’ diets. I mean there are animals who are considered herbivorous who will in rare circumstances consume meat. You just have to talk to a vet and figure out the best thing to do. Now obviously all cats need certain nutrients which are naturally found in meat, such as taurine and L-carnitine. But synthesized versions of these nutrients work just as well. Many conventional animal foods need to be fortified anyway because so many of the nutrients are destroyed during production (and they’re not starting off with very high quality ingredients to begin with). I know lots of people whose cats are in optimum health on a plant-based diet. And they have been for years. I’m not saying it works for all of them, but I’m definitely saying that it’s hypocritical for you to give a (misinformed) shit about other people’s companion animals whilst having nothing whatsoever to say about the actual serious abuse happening to billions of animals every second on a worldwide scale. I think your priorities are a little fucked.

Cats cannot chew vegetables properly. They don’t have the same teeth we do made for crushing vegetables. Feeding them a vegan diet is a choking hazard. Their digestive systems are made for digesting bones and hair. They do not have some of the acids in their saliva that we have that make us omnivorous. Yes, I have done my research, I have seen people try to feed even their snakes a vegan diet and they lasted for what, two-three months? It is pure abuse to feed a cat or carnivorous reptile a vegan meal. Sure, they might eat it or even like it, but the nutritional value they get out of it is next to zero. They may “seem fine” but they cannot tell you when they need to go to the vet, what they would like to eat, if they are having tummy pains, etc. cats could have a serious problem and like us, they won’t know until they feel pain. Dogs, by genetic pedigree, are carnivores. Not vegans, not omnivores, but carnivorous animals. Look at a dogs skull in comparison to a human skull and you will see that their teeth aren’t even close to the same as ours. Their anatomy, their behavior, their digestive system all tell us they are meat eaters. sources:

http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/canine-nutrition/dogs-carnivores-omnivores/ http://rawfed.com/myths/omnivores.html http://www.catinfo.org http://www.veggieboards.com/forum/24-companion-animals/105748-possible-feed-snake-vegan-diet.html

Also, if you wouldn’t mind could you please source your information from UNBIASED RELIABLE sources instead of telling me to source my information?

And

anthonyvse

Hey hey woah well did you know I am boycotting most fast food restaurants and grocery stores for their poor treatment of animals Hey hey woah did you know I have seen the same videos you have, the ones where the chicks are thrown into the grinders and it made me sick to my stomach Hey hey woah did you know that me and my grandmother only buy from a trusted butcher and when the rest of my family goes out to eat we rarely even get anything? Did you know I have seen the same treatment of elephants and snakes and petting zoo animals for entertainment that you all have and it made me want to cry? Did you know I would be vegan if it weren’t for various health issues that I have, yet I still feed my pet dog and reptile a diet that is good for them? Assuming that I’m the son of satan or something because I don’t believe in vegan diets for pets is a really stupid thing isn’t it

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

Dogs are absolutely 100 percent omnivores.

I have never heard of a dog reacting negatively to vegan food. As a matter of fact i've only ever heard they're in great health from it. Did you know they have fruit treats for dogs? Not labeled vegan or anything, theyre just a standard treat. But a carnivore wouldnt be able to eat that.........

I BUY FROM A TRUSTED BUTCHER AND ANIMALS IN VIDEOS MAKE ME CRY SO THAT MEANS I GIVE A SHIT. No, go away. Stop lying to yourself and pretending like you do. You care to your convenience. The amount of times ive heard "health reasons" listed as the reason for someone not being vegan is extremely high.

I don't need to use or see videos of animals being killed to know that life is not property. The 'treatment" of the animal is not the issue, thats for vegetarians. My issue is with the outright USE of animals. Get your shit straight and then come back to me when you decide to stop pretending like you care.

I struggle to understand what food you CAN eat if health reasons keep you from eating vegan. Because, you obviously wouldnt survive a very long time eating only meat, so that tells me that you're eating some vegan foods such as vegetables or fruit.......

Tribute to Steve Irwin, a guy who genuinely loved nature and animals.

This man was beyond real

this dude loved animals SOOOOO much, that he still thought it was okay to kill animals for food and clothing.

We really need to re-evaluate our definition of love in this society.

"Why do you want this job?"

Because under capitalism I am forced to sell my labor in order to subsist.