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majestic though in ruin

@fatalism-and-villainy / fatalism-and-villainy.tumblr.com

Largely blogging about NBC Hannibal right now! Expect also queerness, academic rambles, and villain love. I have an about and an ao3
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Chapters: 1/1 Fandom: Hannibal (TV) Rating: Mature Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings Relationships: Will Graham/Hannibal Lecter, Jack Crawford & Will Graham Characters: Will Graham, Hannibal Lecter, Jack Crawford Additional Tags: Canon Compliant, Post-Episode: s02e07 Yakimono, Season/Series 02, Trauma, Insomnia, Psychological Horror, Roleplay, Hypnosis, canon-typical eroticized therapy, Dom/sub, Objectification, Under-negotiated Kink, Dubious Consent, No Aftercare, Hannibal being a very very bad dom, Miriam Lass - Freeform Summary:
Two birds, released from their cages by sleight of hand. Magnanimously so, in Will’s case; pure calculation, in Miriam’s. She had been discarded. Hannibal had wound her up without bothering to watch her go. Miriam had been conditioned to pull a trigger, and beyond that, Hannibal held no curiosity whatsoever.
Two cages. One with grimy walls, a hard bed, and the oppressive, ever-present awareness of his own transformation. One with comfort, fragrant flowers, soothing music, and the sweet lull of oblivion. And that voice – Hannibal’s voice - winding through both cages, at turns haunting and irresistible.
Will can't seem to let go of what happened to Miriam Lass. Hannibal offers to help with the reconstruction.

The fruit of these labours is finished!

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I think one thing that always bothers me about the Red Dragon arc is - well, it’s a common talking point in the fandom that each half of season 3 represents Hannibal and Will, respectively, living the lives they’d ideally want but without each other. But the thing is, we don’t actually really see much of Will “living without Hannibal.”

Like, in 3A, we get an entire episode of Hannibal’s life without Will, one in which Will doesn’t even show up (and for a season premiere, that’s an even more radical departure from the status quo - we feel Will’s absence as much as Hannibal does) but it feels like there’s this void of negative space where he is. And the contours of that void are so brilliantly and subtly suggested through the flashbacks to Gideon, which contextualizes the preparation of Bedelia (the inadequate substitute for Will Graham) and underlines Hannibal’s need to have others bear witness to his artistry (again, something only reluctantly done by Bedelia, and done in a manner unsatisfactory to him by Anthony Dimmond, the episode’s other unsatisfactory replacement for Will who gets recycled as a macabre valentine for Will). So Gideon saying “if only that someone could be Will Graham” feels like the culmination of what everything that has until now been unspoken has been leading up to.

And in 3B, we don’t really get any kind of analogue to that with Will. In some ways, that makes sense - given Hannibal’s Hannibal-ness, it’s possible to devote an entire episode to his murder and identity theft shenanigans and get some entertaining television out of it. But the life Will is living is a lot more mundane, so it’d be pretty boring to watch forty minutes of him fixing boats and playing with his dogs and eating dinner with his family.

But I do think there should have been something to indicate potential cracks there. We could potentially have had some bits of Will’s life interspersed with the expositional sections of episode 8 that were dedicated to Hannibal being a little shit while in prison, maybe featuring Will being haunted by murder (in the form of the disturbing visions the show is so good at) or missing Hannibal and feeling out of sync with Molly and Walter somehow (as opposed to waiting to get back to Will until literally the equivalent of the first chapter of Red Dragon). Or, they could have been included in flashback form in episode 9 alongside Hannibal’s memories of Abigail (especially in keeping with the themes of family, and Hannibal’s cruel contrast of the family he tried to give Will with the family Will chose for himself).

I get that time constraints were a concern, but ideally, this sort of thing would have helped a lot. Because what we actually get is somehow, simultaneously, Will leaving his family (apparently on a suicide mission) without any kind of mention of them at all, and Will seeming perfectly content with them without much qualification. (And even the book gives us more potential cracks in his marriage - both in it being made clear that Will never expected the marriage to last, and in the “maddening politeness” he endures near the end. The show does give us a little bit of that with the friction between Will and Walter after Dolarhyde’s attack, but Molly still isn’t as angry or distant with Will in the wake of that attack as she should be for me to really buy the dissolution of that family.)

So, all of that is to say that, while 3B has grown on me quite a lot, I think it fails to show us the Hannibal-shaped negative space in Will’s life. And I don’t buy the argument that we should just take it for granted that of course Will couldn’t live without Hannibal. Just as with the Minnesota Shrike, I need to see a negative to fully see the positive.

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While talking to @menciemeer, something came up re: Jack’s motivations for being in Italy in season 3 that I haven’t seen discussed much - and that is that he’s explicitly there not to catch Hannibal, but to save Will. Here’s his dialogue with Pazzi in Secondo:

Jack: If he hasn’t already, Il Mostro will return to Florence. Pazzi: Come back with me. We have a chance to regain our reputations and enjoy the honours of our trade by capturing the monster. Jack: I’m not here for the monster. Not my house, not my fire. I’m here for Will Graham.

This is even more striking in light of the context for his character that the very next episode gives us - his conversation with Chilton in Aperitivo establishes that he’s been forced into retirement with the FBI, but he’s not interested in regaining his standing or reputation. (Very odd in light of the fact that come the Red Dragon plot, he seems to still have his old job in Behavioral Science). Chilton tries to get him to use Will as bait to find Hannibal:

Chilton: Will is going to lead you right to him. Jack: Oh, no, he’s not. Not to me. I’ve let them both go. I’ve let it all go. Chilton: You dangle Will Graham and now you cut bait? You’re letting Hannibal have him hook, line, and sinker. Jack: You’ll excuse me, Dr. Chilton. I like to be home in the evenings when my wife wakes.

What stands out about this exchange is Chilton’s “letting Hannibal have him” phrasing. It foregrounds not subduing Hannibal, but preventing Will from succumbing to his worst impulses, as a central motivation for Jack in 3A. It’s also significant that it’s his need to care for Bella that leads him to defer pursuing anything relating to Hannibal or Will, because her death is framed within the episode as the impetus for his investment in following Will to Europe - as he tells Will in the funeral scene, “you don’t have to die on me, too.”

So much of Jack’s character arc in the first two seasons is juggling his repeated sacrifice of others for the greater good. His guilt over what befalls both Will and Miriam features prominently in season 2, and during Will’s trial, he’s already prepared to put his career and reputation on the line to stand up for Will and atone for what he feels is his role in Will’s downfall. Both the traumatic events of Mizumono and Bella’s death bring about more of a full turnaround in that direction - Jack becomes less invested in apprehending killers in service of public safety, and more invested in saving the specific person who’s been harmed by that project.

I think this motivation doesn’t always stick in people’s minds because these exchanges get eclipsed by Jack beating Hannibal to a bloody pulp a couple episodes later, as well as his inexplicable return to working for the FBI in 3B. But even in the former altercation, his fight with Hannibal feels personal, more about venting anger and grief than actually apprehending Hannibal. In Dolce, when Will asks why Jack didn’t kill Hannibal, Jack responds “maybe I need you to” (in the same exchange, of course, as “you need to cut that part out”). That scene also establishes clearly that Will and Jack are, like Pazzi, “outside the law and alone.” As in Mizumono, they’re effectively vigilantes - and Jack’s mission is not serving justice for the FBI, but in saving Will from Hannibal’s influence.

This is why, despite the fact that Jack is once again embroiled in FBI business in season 3B, I always envision his role post-canon as being a continuation of what haunts him in the first half of the season - less about catching or killing Hannibal than about rescuing Will. It’s a lot more compelling to me, at least, than him simply continuing to be the face of law enforcement.

#yeahhh i really like the way you put this#god jack in s3 … his grief; his guilt; everything about his interactions with hannibal too#after bella’s death—or even by the time he goes after hannibal in mizumono— he’s definitely beyond the constraints &#moral constructs of law enforcement#at the same time hannibal’s comparison of him to god is fascinating considering the emphasis on god’s duality/cruelty/need for sacrifices#since; as you mentioned; by s3b—despite his pervasive guilt—will becomes the sacrifice once more to jack’s agenda#& in conjunction with that; ​post-fall jack’s return to his s3a state of mind is definitely far more compelling#wrt the fallout of him sacrificing will one too many times & finally losing him entirely#yet if it came down to a choice; in the moment; btwn saving will but letting hannibal go or finally getting the closure of#hannibal’s death at will’s expense—especially if will’s actions/becoming lead jack to believe will’s death would be for the greater good—#i could see it going either way#after all; regardless of not being tied to the considerations of law enforcement; his moral compass is still more inflexible than will’s#& in nbc hannibal; one way or the other; all gods demand sacrifices (via @carbonorchestrations)

ooh thanks for these thoughts!

Jack’s moral compass is less flexible than Will’s, in the sense that he’s not torn between good and evil - he’s pretty firmly positioned as the good angel on Will’s shoulder (while Hannibal is the devil). But he is similar to Will in the sense that he’s constantly internally divided - in his case not between righteousness and darker impulses, but between protecting the individual people close to him and sacrificing them for “the greater good.” And just as Hannibal influences Will into leaning more towards his dark side, Will’s (unintended) effect on Jack is to push him more in the direction of valuing personal loyalties (in season 2 he’s all set to put his career on the line in order to defend Will).

Where Jack isn’t conflicted, over the course of the show, is on the question of personal justice versus “public” justice. His vendetta against the Ripper is highly personally motivated, because of what happened to Miriam Lass (and later to Beverly, by season 2B), but catching him would undeniably be a public service, so the personal motivations don’t conflict with his ideals. But post-canon, I’d love to see him get pointed in a direction that requires his personal vendettas and loyalties to clash with his morals, and just wind him up and watch him go from there.

I’ve talked before about how Alana in 3B gets to balance her sense of self-preservation with her moral impulse to protect others, but that those two goals might end up clashing for her post-canon. I think for Jack something similar could happen wrt personal and public justice, as well as having to choose between saving someone and killing the bad guy. So I really like what you’ve said about him having to choose between saving Will and killing Hannibal, or saving or killing Will based on what Will’s become.

I think the other thing going on with Jack is the question of what constitutes justice, and specifically what the distinction is between state-sanctioned justice (and murder) and rogue justice. I had Jack in the back of my mind as I was writing this post, and it helped me reach a breakthrough on What Even to Do With Jack in my “Jack encountering Will and Hannibal post-canon” ‘verse. Because I’d considered Will offering to help Jack solve some set of murder cases (unsanctioned), but wasn’t sure what direction to take that in, but I think “Will persuading Jack to commit murder as a form of vigilante justice” is what I’ve landed on. (Especially since - to continue the Alana parallels - it might indebt him to Hannibal and/or Will in the same way Alana’s murder of Mason Verger indebted her to Hannibal.)

^^^^^

I too feel like there’s something lost of Jack’s story in the Red Dragon arc because we don’t get to see him much outside of the case and what he’s willing to do with both Will and Hannibal to get it solved, which seem like a backtracking of his development in the Italy half. But it doesn’t have to be and the religious references in the Red Dragon arc give a lot of room to make it work in a John 3:16 kind of way (“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”). We need to see and really comprehend what “so lov[ing] the world” meant to Jack, and where it came from.

It would have needed to tell that interim story of how Jack was lost between the end of Italy and the start of Red Dragon, which the show didn’t seem interested in telling, for time or because it wasn’t focused on Hannibal and Will or whatever. Since we didn’t get to see Will developing a relationship with Molly (also a shame, though I understand it under the circumstances that Bryan had to rush in the Red Dragon story if he was going to get to tell it at all), I can’t really expect that they’d give us this.

If there were a S4, I’d like to see some opportunity for them to shore this up somehow, maybe through flashbacks in the intervening years between S3 and S4, or through a developing a relationship with Clarice and getting a chance to revisit Jack’s more personal motivations for why he does the things he does.

Belated reply, but yeah, I completely agree. The way the time skip was handled (or wasn't handled, given how opaque its events are) is one of my bigger problems with how the Red Dragon storyline was incorporated into the show*. I think it causes some characterization issues for several people, Jack included.

I think the other problem is that the show's take on Red Dragon is just... too much of a straight adaptation. Which feels jarring in the wake of how much Hannibal and Hannibal Rising were scrapped for parts for the first half of the season, and also feels out of alignment with the previously established storytelling premises of the show. This feels especially egregious with Jack, who ends up playing exactly the same role vis a vis Will as he does in the book, even though given the weight of their history together his outlook should be completely different. (And given how much self-reflection and regret he's prone to in the earlier seasons regarding the people he's sacrificed, it seems like he should at least be agonizing over the decision to bring Will back much more than he does.)

I agree the religious references would have been a way to bridge the gap between the two - the way Jack readily agrees with Hannibal comparing him to God is a really interesting character moment, and matches the ruthless he's been consistently capable of in his quest for justice. But it definitely could have used more scaffolding.

(*One reason I mourn the lack of season 4 is because of the additional context for season 3 it likely would have provided, since season 3 imo provides a lot of important context for season 2. I could very well see them incorporating more flashbacks to fill in that stretch of time between 3A and 3B, since so much of the show's MO is going back and filling in the blanks for what we've already seen.)

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I think the two fic-related discussion topics of the moment - people expressing shock and consternation at the existence of fic-reading focused discord servers (because how dare readers discuss fic amongst themselves, instead of in the comments like god intended), and people expressing incredulity at the fact that people who write sexually explicit fanfic might not be comfortable with literally every type of sexually explicit comment - are kind of hammering home my current disgruntlement with ao3-based fic writer culture.

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It is really funny how much some tumblr users build their understanding of what is taboo in a degenerate immoral fashion vs what is taboo in a subversive radical fashion exclusively on aesthetic appeal so they’re willing to drastically alter their moral stances based on what media they’re obsessing over currently

Blogger obsessed with posting about sexual cannibalism and toxic doomed yuri complaining about incest fetishization… you’re two Ginger Snaps gifsets and a Flowers in the Attic excerpt away from trying to recreate Single White Female with your mutuals

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adhdavinci
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Hmm so a perspective I think I’ve seen crop up in meta before, but that I don’t really buy, concerns taking this line from Bedelia in 3.10:

You couldn’t save Hannibal. Do you think you can save this new one?

because I’ve seen people imply that Bedelia was correct in her assumptions about Will here, but I’ve honestly never gotten the impression that Will wanted to “save” Hannibal at all.

“This new one” can only refer to Dolarhyde (touched on only elliptically in this scene), and I think it’s fair to say that Will does have some investment in “saving” Dolarhyde, by some definition of that word - hence his attachment to the idea that Dolarhyde might be trying to stop killing. But I don’t think that he at any point wants to save Hannibal. He spends 3A trying to understand Hannibal better, but it doesn’t seem as though he wants to use that understanding to “redeem” Hannibal or save him from his worst impulses. In fact, he actively rejects the idea that Hannibal’s backstory can explain the person he is now (“Mischa doesn’t explain Hannibal… she doesn’t quantify what he does”), or that Hannibal is capable of being redeemed. My impression is that, consistently through seasons two and three, he thinks of Hannibal as an immutable force, one he can either resist or submit to. (And of course, he opts to resist at the close of the first half of season 3, and ends the show by submitting.)

So I think the investment Will may have in saving Dolarhyde stems from his identification with Dolarhyde, especially in the fact that Dolarhyde becomes another pupil of Hannibal (and Will uses their shared role vis a vis Hannibal to manipulate Dolarhyde in WOTL). His theory that Dolarhyde is trying to stop is perhaps wrapped up in his own desire to resist Hannibal, and by extension his own violent urges. And perhaps that sheds more meaning on “I don’t think I can save myself, but maybe that’s just fine.” But any desire to “save” Dolarhyde seems much more based in a desire to save himself than a desire to save Hannibal.

And this dialogue from Bedelia is in the same scene as the wounded bird exchange. Bedelia instructing Will to crush the wounded bird, instead of save it, makes the most sense when read as her trying to get Will to kill Hannibal (in the same way she tried to get Hannibal to kill Will in 3A). But there’s no indication to me that Will thinks of Hannibal specifically as a wounded bird. In fact, it’s easier to argue that Bedelia saw Hannibal that way - she and Will discuss her continuation of her role as Hannibal’s psychiatrist, and that’s contrasted with her “crushing” Neal Frank, and her acknowledgment of how unevenly distributed her compassion was towards her two patients. So when she tells Will, “the next time you have an instinct to help someone, you might consider crushing them instead”, she’s actively trying to redirect his impulses, but I think also alluding to the shift in her approach towards Hannibal from 3A to 3B.

All of that is to say - I think Bedelia’s assumption that Will was motivated to “save” Hannibal is perhaps a case of projection on her part.

And Bedelia’s perception of Will changes throughout this arc. Although in 3.10 she’s very convinced that Will isn’t a true killer, she gradually comes to realize just how actively allied with Hannibal’s interests he is, whether he realizes it or not. The turning point for her is, I believe, 3.12, in the aftermath of the Chilton affair, when she recognizes Will as Hannibal’s “agency in the world.” Although Will does end up crushing Dolarhyde, he opts to help Hannibal. But it’s not rehabilitative help, it’s collaborative. And I think Bedelia becomes steadily more aware of that throughout this arc.

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my-kelde

Kathleen Ryan. Bad Cherries (BFF), 2020.

agate, amazonite, aquamarine, aventurine, amethyst, angelite, brecciaded jasper, garnet, jasper, labrardorite, magnesite, moonstone, quartz, red aventurine, rhyolite, serpentine, snow quartz, spotted quartz, unakite, tiger eye, freshwater pearls, glass, steel pins on coated polystyrene, fishing poles.

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ghelgheli

I'm speaking mostly from my experience of yuri/gl but the way that so much of romance will textually endorse the diagnostic and affirmative function of jealousy—will use its presence as confirmation of "genuine" feelings, its expression as a romantic gesture, and its absence as evidence against sincere interest—kinda sucks a lot

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melrosing

love how over magic westeros is. like dragons have just about faded from living memory, the descendants of the valyrians who everyone knows were capable of the wildest shit are like.... literally still living, there are trees with faces left by the fairy people who used to live all over the land.... and they're just like yeah but that was ages ago I sure couldn't imagine anything like that anymore. don't talk crazy. meanwhile in the real world my aunt is giving me rocks she bought for £2 to cure my mental health

It's interesting, because GRRM is writing a world where rational thinking has been overcoming superstition, perhaps due to the diligent efforts of maesters who want the world to be that way. Whereas in our world, despite the great efforts of scientists and skeptics, superstition and pseudoscience have led to a more and more "demon-haunted world" (per Sagan), or "the crazy years" (per Heinlein).

However, because it's fiction, the world of ice and fire truly is magic. But the maesters believe that "perhaps magic was once a mighty force in the world, but no longer." Some maesters go further than that, dismissing even older stories of magical power. TWOIAF has multiple history bits where its maester writer gives both a legend of magic, and a scientific rational explanation. For example:

  • The Breaking, where per legend the Children of the Forest created the Hammer of the Waters to break the Arm of Dorne into the Stepstones and flood the Neck, splitting Westeros from Essos and nearly splitting the North from the rest of the continent; the maesters' explanation is climate change leading to the melting of polar ice caps and rising sea levels
  • that the CotF could speak to ravens and have them repeat the words to send messages, whereas maesters believe they merely understood raven behavior and ravens are incapable of true speech
  • that the Others were no more than a tribe of northern First Men (ancestors of the Free Folk), and that the Night's King's corpse queen was no more than a woman of the Barrowlands

Yandel frequently mocks the legend saying only a child or a fool (or a singer) would believe it, yet we know the legend is true. (ADWD shows straight up how the raven thing is accomplished via skinchanging.) And the maesters' skepticism is surely about to get a dramatic rude awakening when Euron does whatever the hell he's doing on the Citadel doorstep, not to mention the return of both dragons and the Others.

So I think it's kind of interesting, and maybe a bit worrisome, that one of GRRM's themes appears to be "ignore scientific rationalist skepticism; it's legends and old wives' tales that are the real truth." Obviously it's because ASOIAF is a fantasy series with a lot of horror elements (that trope is extremely common in horror), and of course it was less of a real-world issue in the 90s when GRRM got started, than now during such a surge in antiscience movements. But it still feels just a bit head-tilty to me when climate change is brought up only to be the punchline of a joke. Especially when the Others are a metaphor for climate change in the first place...

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ghostcrows

due to inflation you must answer my riddles five

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zouffle

due to budget cuts i will grant you two wishes

due to recent layoffs there is only one of me and I lie 50% of the time

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