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I got a jar of dirt

@oddsbodskins / oddsbodskins.tumblr.com

And guess what's inside it
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Anonymous asked:

Please let us know your thoughts post-E6 of GoT. E6 threw Jon under the bus. How are you wrapping your head around that?

Oh, anon. 

LOL So I suppose I will say a few things but I want to begin this answer with this: We all have spent a week plus reading through critiques and some have even been able to give close watching/subtext analysis a decent go. I don’t think I will rehash any of that. For the most part, I want to try to keep this between neutral and positive. (Sorry, this got really long.)

First, Game of Thrones the TV show has ended. This was not a story that could be wrapped up and this was no longer a TV show that had the intention of fleshing things out like the earlier seasons. And I have, I think, come to a place of accepting and understanding that. 

I may have gained a new perspective on it today while I was thinking about the prequel and researching who might be some of the characters in the Long Night series, just to maybe narrow down some plot. The best I could speculate/wish for was that Naomi Watts is playing Florys the Fox, “a legendary daughter of Garth Greenhand and the cleverest of his children. According to myth, she kept three husbands, each ignorant of the existence of the other two. Her sons became the founders of House Florent, House Ball and House Peake. In some tales of the Reach, Lann the Clever was a bastard born to Florys.” (wiki of ice and fire)

Lann the Clever started House Lannister through his own scheming. So the idea that this outrageously interesting, legendary figure in history, a woman responsible for the lines of four major houses through three deceitful marriages and a bastard from an affair, well I certain want to watch her story. Especially with Naomi Watts playing her and being described by HBO as a socialite with a dark secret. 

However, lets say she is playing this woman. What is the story? Can we already predict 5-10 years of plot, character development, twists, nuance and truth about her story simply because we have a few mentions of her in the “history” books? Of course not. A fleshed out tail of her journey from “socialite” to an Age of Heroes legend will be awesome and unpredictable with a lot of potential for good story telling.

Now, I said all that to say this. Game of Thrones felt like it started to move away from more micro character driven plot to a more macro look at major events. It was as if the series morphed from a novel to a history book. I will even be generous, as I’m trying to stay a bit zen with this, and say that this might have been the only way to do justice to the story in this form. I think there were missteps with that in terms of what was fair to the actors, but I can still see an argument for it.

So many perspectives and emotional truths were masked from the audience in the later seasons. We got to know the most intimate moments of these characters and their journeys, we became invested in what they would do in the end because we cared about them. But ultimately, what they do will be all that the histories remember. Not why, and probably not even how as we have seen how unreliable historical retellings of events can be. Still, a ton of historical events took place in this story, especially toward the end. 

Here is what the histories chronicling the wars of Westeros following the death of King Robert might look like. This is a list of simply what happened, and to keep it short I will just discuss the Starks winning Northern Independence back after the Targaryen reign. 

  • Ned Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North was beheaded for treason while serving as Hand of the King.
  • The North declared its independence and King Robb Stark fought a war against the crown. He was killed at a wedding, betrayed by his own bannermen, The Boltons, who conspired with Tywin Lannister. The Boltons were there after named the Lord Paramounts of the North.
  • King Joffrey was poisoned at his wedding, after which Sansa Stark disappeared from King’s Landing. Her husband, Tyrion Lannister, was tried and found guilty of the murder. He escaped justice by murdering his father, the Hand of the King, and fleeing to Essos. 
  • Sansa Stark then married Ramsay Bolton, the legitimized bastard of Roose Bolton, Warden of the North. Roose Bolton was later killed, poisoned by his enemies, as Stannis Baratheon marched on Winterfell. Stannis was defeated in battle and Sansa Stark disappeared once again. 
  • Jon Snow, the Bastard of Winterfell, was serving as Lord Commander of Castle Black. He allowed an army of Wildlings through the Wall and later broke his oath to the Night’s Watch to lead the Wildling army South to take back Winterfell with the help of his half-sister, Sansa Stark and the Knights of the Vale. Sansa was able to secure the Vale army due to another marriage oath she swore and later broke. 
  • Jon Snow was named King in the North and Sansa Stark claimed her place as Lady of Winterfell. 
  • Jon Snow later bent the knee to Danaerys Targaryen during her invasion of Westeros. Together their forces defeated Cersei Lannister, the ruling Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, resulting in the burning of King’s Landing. Before Danaerys could claim the throne, Jon Snow murdered her by stabbing her in the heart with his dagger.
  • Jon Snow was exiled back to the Night’s Watch and Bran the Broken was named King. 
  • Sansa Stark declared the North’s independence once again and was met with no objection by the new King. She was thereafter known as Sansa Stark, The Queen of the North. 

None of this is inaccurate, but this is not the story we know. We know what really happened, and all of the important moments along the way that were left out entirely. The fight against Army of the Dead may never be acknowledged as more than a rumor, since it was defeated before the rest of the world was forced to confront it. 

(More, including future theories ala Bael the Bard below the cut.)

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zalrb

OK so here’s the thing.

My two biggest issues with Jon and Jonerys were a) lack of chemistry and b) terrible writing. These two things combined not only made their scenes hard to watch because of how staged and contrived and forced it all felt but because they were unbelievable. I didn’t understand how Jon and Daenerys fell in love or why they fell in love or what connection they had, there was no time spent building any of that.

I bring this up because it was a huge issue for me in 8x06. I was scrolling through the Jonsa tag and people were disappointed in Jon for defending a war criminal and a tyrant, which I understand because when I saw that scene with Tyrion I was just like, Jon you’re out here looking like a fucking jackass right now.

I understand that people wanted him to write off Dany immediately but the one thing I did enjoy was that Arya and Tyrion both bring up how Sansa will not kneel and once that really sinks in for Jon, he does choose Sansa (and Arya) over Daenerys.

But what cheapened that moment for me, which is also what bothered me the most about Jon’s defence of Daenerys, wasn’t that he defended her actions but the fact that I didn’t believe that Jon would be that far gone, that blinded by love for him to try and rationalize what he just witnessed. Jon didn’t witness Daenerys crucify the masters and “liberate” Meereen or Yunkai, he didn’t see her rise from the ashes with dragons, he didn’t see her in all her epic saviour glory.

In fact they didn’t spend much screentime together and when they do, they don’t really speak about anything real. If we saw conversations between them where Dany is so convincing about this new world she’s going to create, if we had Jon see Daenerys actually interact with the Unsullied and the Dothraki and Missandei in a way that was uniquely democratic and/or gentle for a ruler in Westeros, something Jon had never seen before, if we basically saw Jon become a believer of Dany’s then I would be more inclined to believe that in 8x06 Jon is doing the best he can to protect her and his vision of her because she made him a believer, which would then make the fact that he chose Sansa and his family over her all the more poignant, and I know D&D thought they gave us that but what they gave us was Daenerys fighting for a war that affected everyone in KL but the battle just happened to take place in the North, they gave us nothing and so Jon just came across as a complete and utter idiot.

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Democracy though. Imagine who would vote for who. People would vote for their own lords most likely. Who has the most people would win? How transparent would it be? So it was unreasonable? And in the eyes of the lords laughable.

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murvens-law

Sansa and Bronn

My dudes! Something just occurred to me. Jon is gone. Ghost is gone. The Northern armies are gone. Brienne is emotionally compromised. Bronn just gambled against Cersei in a big way. He let Jaime and Tyrion go. Cersei is winning right now. Bronn is just chilling in Winterfell. I’m not saying he’s going to kidnap Sansa and present her to Cersei as an apology gift… well shit that’s exactly what I’m saying. I could wrong, I just don’t see him deciding to just chillax in Winterfell and not have anymore plot. And I have a hard time imagining Sansa not being a part of the storyline in the south.

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oddsbodskins

Same. I don’t see Cersei hitting the bucket without “reuniting” with Sansa???? Jaime, Arya and the hound are going back to KL. Podrick and Brienne would follow where Sansa goes.

It just doesn’t make sense to leave Sansa up north for the remainder of the story. Plus it’s too convenient that she has almost no protection now.

Nothing made sense in the end. A lesson learnt: expect nothing and you won't be disappointed. 🙂

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erzakyuubei

Jonsa Book Foreshadowing

Not mine. Credit goes to Juligen from asoiaf forum.

YOU WILL MARRY A KING…………..

You,” Ned said, kissing her lightly on the brow, “will marry a king and rule his castle, and your sons will be knights and princes and lords and, yes, perhaps even a High Septon.”Arya screwed up her face. “No,” she said, “that’s Sansa.“ 

(Eddard V- A Game of Thrones)

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For me this quote is one of the most important quotes from the entire series because it pretty much sets up for the audience both Sansa and Arya story arc. Sansa will be the sister who will marry and have children and fulfill her childhood dreams of a happy family, which is why Love, marriage and children will be a constant theme in Sansa’s arc story. She will be treated as an object, passed around by the powerful players of the story, all interested in her claim of Winterfell and the North; she will be forced into marriage alliances and her future children will be desired for their claim in the North. Sansa will try to survive as much as she can, keeping still a slim hope to find love and happiness and maybe one day fulfill that sweet dream of a rebuilding her destroyed family.

Arya will follow another path; she will be a warrior and ruler on her own. Arya always wanted to be the keeper of her own holdfast, she wanted to be a knight and fight in battle and most important, I believe Arya wanted to feel the independence that most women in Westeros could never feel. Not that love and marriage is not impossible for her, but I feel George wants Arya to be a Queen regent on her own.

George is trying to tells us in this passage of the books that women should be able to choose their own paths and if its love, marriage and children what they wish for they should have it, but if its not, they should be free to figure out her own destiny. The tragedy of Lyanna Stark was that she never had a choice and was forced into marry someone she never cared for, and I believe George wants to show with both Sansa and Arya that girls should be free to choose their own dreams., because BOTH dreams are equality valid.

A CLOAK STAINED IN FIRE AND BLOOD………………….

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained with blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering.

(A Clash of Kings - Sansa VII)

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Sansa cloaked herself with a cloak stained in "Fire and Blood” the words of House Targaryen. For me this has always been one of the biggest foreshadows on the book and its interesting to notice how George used the character of Sandor Cleagane as a redherring for this scene in order to not make so obvious the connection with Jon.

It was only when we make the connection of this particular scene with one that happened a few chapters before In the book A CLASH OF KINGS that it became pretty obvious this quote was about Jon Snow.

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“I’ve never lain with any woman but Cersei. In my own way, I’ve been truer than your Ned ever was. Poor old dead Ned. So who has shit for honor now, I ask you? What was the name of that bastard he fathered?”

Catelyn took a step backwards. “Brienne.”

No, that wasn’t it.” Jaime Lannister upended the flagon. A trickled ran down onto his face, bright as blood. “Snow, that was the one. Such a white name … like the pretty cloaks they give us in the Kingsguard when we swear our pretty oaths.”

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn VII

When she crawled out of bed, long moments later, she was alone. She found his cloak on the floor, twisted up tight, the white wool stained with blood and fire. The sky outside was darker by then, with only a few pale green ghosts dancing against the stars. A chill wind was blowing, banging the shutters. Sansa was cold. She shook out the torn cloak and huddled beneath it on the floor, shivering.

A Clash of Kings - Sansa VII

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THE ORDER OF THE CHAPTERS OF THE BOOKS….

Every time Sansa’s marriage proposals are being discussed in the books, the next chapter usually its followed by a JON chapter. Once you put the two quotes together is that you really get it, what George was once again, very delicately trying to tells us.

In the first book A GAME OF THRONES, chapter 4 Eddard I, we have King Robert arriving at Winterfell and asking to visit Lyanna tomb in the crypts of the castle. While there King Robert decides to ask for Sansa’s hand in marriage for his son prince Joffrey. This is the chapter where Sansa and Joffrey become officially betrothed to each other and their Royal engagement its made official. The very next chapter? JON. This is also the chapter where Jon Snow will get drunk in the Feats for the king and ask uncle Ben to join the NightsWatch.

In a CLASH OF KINGS chapter 52, SANSA IV, Sansa will get her period and be finally “fit to bear children to the king”. Cersei then tries, as best as she can, to be a mother figure to Sansa in this very special moment and gives her a womanly advice. She tells her that love is a dangerous feeling that makes us all weaker and it should wiser for her to love only her children. Once again we have a chapter discussing Sansa future marriage to a king and the following chapter is JON VII.

Finally on A STORM OF SWORDS, we have the famous chapter 68, Sansa VI, where she laments that no one will ever marry her for love, its only her name and Winterfell they all want. The very next chapter of the book? JON. Again, thats not a coincidence, George does this, he said that he takes a lot of planning and caring about the way he writes and structures his books.

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A CLASH OF KINGS - THE WINTER ROSE

In A CLASH OF KINGS we will have George very quietly making the connection with Jon, Sansa and the tale of Bael the Bard.  While was I re reading the books I noticed that George was playing with the chapters orders and trying to tells us some hints of the story by putting characters chpaters next to each other. The first time Jon meets Ygritte on “A CLASH OF KINGS”, chapter 51, she tells him a story of Bael the Bard and the Blue Winter Rose:

“The Stark in Winterfell wanted Bael’s head, but never could take him, and the taste o’ failure galled him. One day in his bitterness he called Bael a craven who preyed only on the weak. When word o’ that got back, Bael vowed to teach the lord a lesson. So he scaled the Wall, skipped down the kingsroad, and walked into Winterfell one winter’s night with harp in hand, naming himself Sygerrik of Skagos. Sygerrik means ‘deceiver’ in the Old Tongue, that the First Men spoke, and the giants still speak.

"North or south, singers always find a ready welcome, so Bael ate at Lord Stark’s own table, and played for the lord in his high seat until half the night was gone. The old songs he played, and new ones he’d made himself, and he played and sang so well that when he was done, the lord offered to let him name his own reward. 'All I ask is a flower,’ Bael answered, 'the fairest flower that blooms in the gardens o’ Winterfell.’

"Now as it happened the winter roses had only then come into bloom, and no flower is so rare nor precious. So the Stark sent to his glass gardens and commanded that the most beautiful o’ the winter roses be plucked for the singer’s payment. And so it was done. But when morning come, the singer had vanished … and so had Lord Brandon’s maiden daughter. Her bed they found empty, but for the pale blue rose that Bael had left on the pillow where her head had lain.”

(A Clash of Kings – Jon VI)

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Right next in the following chapter 52, Sansa has her first flowering. This is the chapter where Sansa gets her first period and its now “fit to bear children to the King.”

“The blood is the seal of your womanhood. Lady Catelyn might have prepared you. You've had your first flowering, no more.” Sansa had never felt less flowery. “My lady mother told me, but I… I thought it would be different.”“Different how?”“I don’t know. Less… less messy, and more magical.” Queen Cersei laughed. "Wait until you birth a child, Sansa. A woman’s life is nine parts mess to one part magic, you’ll learn that soon enough… and the parts that look like magic often turn out to be messiest of all.” She took a sip of milk. “So now you are a woman. Do you have the least idea of what that means?” “It means that I am now fit to be wedded and bedded,” said Sansa, “and to bear children for the king.” …….

Do you want to be loved, Sansa?“ "Everyone wants to be loved." "I see flowering hasn’t made you any brighter,” said Cersei. “Sansa, permit me to share a bit of womanly wisdom with you on this very special day. Love is poison. A sweet poison, yes, but it will kill you all the same.”

(A Clash of Kings – Sansa IV)

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In the chapter 52, Sansa gets her period for the first time. She is taken to see Cersei who uses the moment to give Sansa womanly advice about love. She warns Sansa that love is dangerous and make us weaker. The following chapter of the book is JON VII.

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“Robert wanted to be loved. My brother Tyrion has the same disease. Do you want to be loved, Sansa?” “Everyone wants to be loved.” “I see flowering hasn’t made you any brighter,” said Cersei. “Sansa, permit me to share a bit of womanly wisdom with you on this very special day. Love is poison. A sweet poison, yes, but it will kill you all the same.”

(A Clash of Kings – Sansa IV)

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In the end of chapter Cersei warns Sansa about love and how dangerous it can be. The following chapter of the book is also JON VII. George really wanted us to picture Jon, Sansa and the Blue Winter Rose tale all together. For me this is one of the biggest clues that not only Jon and Sansa will marry but also, its their child that will continue House Stark.

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A STORM OF SWORDS - THE FALLING SNOW

In A storm of Swords, George used the prologue of the book to foreshadow Jon and Sansa romance, using the snow to symbolize Jon Snow. In the two paragraphs under, Chett will lament that heavy snow has ruined his plans for desertion and that Jon Snow and Sam stole his comfortable position as Maester Aemon’s steward: and that Jon Snow stole his position.

“He could feel tears freezing to his cheeks. It isn’t fair, he wanted to scream. Snow would ruin everything he’d worked for, all his careful plans. It was a heavy fall, thick white flakes coming down all about him.How would they find their food caches in the snow, or the game trail they meant to follow east? They won’t need Dywen nor Bannen to hunt us down neither, not if we’re tracking through fresh snow. And snow hid the shape of the ground, especially by night. A horse could stumble over a root, break a leg on a stone. We’re done, he realized. Done before we began. We’re lost. There’d be no lord’s life for the leechman’s son, no keep to call his own, no wives nor crowns. Only a wildling’s sword in his belly, and then an unmarked grave. The snow’s taken it all from me … the bloody snow …”

 “Snow had ruined him once before. Snow and his pet pig.”

(ASOS Prologue)

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And later we have Jon Snow introducing himself as “the snow”……

“The singer rose to his feet. “I’m Mance Rayder,” he said as he put aside the lute. “And you are Ned Stark’s bastard, the Snow of Winterfell.

 ( A Storm of Swords – Jon I)

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Then comes Sansa’s chapter at the end of the book, where she will feel snow falling down her lips and touching her almost like a lover……..

Snow was falling on the Eyrie.

Yet she stepped out all the same. Her boots tore ankle-deep holes into the smooth white surface of the snow, yet made no sound. Sansa drifted past frosted shrubs and thin dark trees, and wondered if she were still dreaming. Drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover’s kisses, and melted on her cheeks. At the center of the garden, beside the statue of the weeping woman that lay broken and half-buried on the ground, she turned her face up to the sky and closed her eyes. She could feel the snow on her lashes, taste it on her lips. It was the taste of Winterfell. The taste of innocence. The taste of dreams.

(A Storm of Swords - Sansa VIII)

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A FEAST FOR CROWS - SANSA FIRST LOVE

In A FEAST FOR CROWS, chapter 23, we have Sansa playing the role of Alayne Stone, Littlefinger bastard daughter. In this chapter Sansa remembers Lord Yohn Royce son,  Ser Wayman Royce and how she fell madly in love with him when he visited Winterfell on his way to take the black on the Nights Watch. If we go back to the prologue of the first book, we will find out that surprising, Ser Waymar physical description is identical of Jon Snow. George is trying to tell us that Sansa will probably be physical attracted to Jon Snow once she is reunited with him later in the story. 

"Bronze Yohn knows me,” she reminded him. “He was a guest at Winterfell when his son rode north to take the black." She had fallen wildly in love with Ser Waymar, she remembered dimly, but that was a lifetime ago, when she was a stupid little girl. "And that was not the only time. Lord Royce saw … he saw Sansa Stark again at King’s Landing, during the Hand’s tourney.”

- A FEAST FOR CROWS,  Alayne I

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Waymar Royce is described as follows. Notice how similar this description is to Jon.

Ser Waymar Royce was the youngest son of an ancient house with too many heirs. He was a handsome youth of eighteen, grey-eyed and graceful and slender as a knife. Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather.

A GAME OF THRONES, Prologue

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Jon’s eyes were a grey so dark they seemed almost black, but there was little they did not see. He was of an age with Robb, but they did not look alike. Jon was slender where Robb was muscular, dark where Robb was fair, graceful and quick where his half brother was strong and fast.

- A GAME OF THRONES, Bran I

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JON SNOW BECOMING SANSA’S HERO

“Sweet one,” her father said gently, “listen to me. When you’re old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who’s worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. **That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me.”** -

( A Game of Thrones – Sansa III)

She shouted for Ser Dontos, for her brothers, for her dead father and her dead wolf, for gallant Ser Loras who had given her a red rose once, but none of them came. She called for the heroes from the songs, **for Florian and Ser Ryam Redwyne and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight, but no one heard.**

(A Clash of Kings – Sansa IV)

They were not little boys when they fought, but knights and mighty heroes. “I’m Prince Aemon the Dragonknight,” Jon would call out, and Robb would shout back, “Well, I’m Florian the Fool.” Or Robb would say, “I’m the Young Dragon,” and Jon would reply, “I’m Ser Ryam Redwyne.”**

A Storm of Swords – Jon II

Notice how Sansa’s heros match with with the ones Jon’s used to pretend to be as a child.

“Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face, remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off his head.

 A game of Thrones – Sansa VI

“I will not hang him,” said Jon. “Bring him here.” “Oh, Seven save us,” he heard Bowen Marsh cry out. The smile that Lord Janos Slynt smiled then had all the sweetness of rancid butter. Until Jon said, “Edd, fetch me a block,” and unsheathed Longclaw.

A dance of Dragons – Jon II

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THEIR DREAMS COMPLETING EACH OTHERS

Dreams of home and family

“She pictured the two of them sitting together in a garden with puppies in their laps, or listening to a singer strum upon a lute while they floated down the Mander on a pleasure barge. “If I give him Sons, he may come to love me. She would name them Eddard and Brandon and Rickon, and raise them all to be as Valiant as Ser Loras. And to hate Lannisters, too. In Sansa’s dreams, her children looked just like the brothers she had lost. Sometimes there was even a girl who looked like Arya.”

A STORM OF SWORDS, Sansa II

“I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decide to live his life on the wall. I could name him Robb”..-

A STORM OF SWORDS, Jon XII

Rebuilding Winterfell……

The snow fell and the castle rose. Two walls ankle-high, the inner taller than the outer. Towers and turrets, keeps and stairs, a round kitchen, a square armory, the stables along the inside of the west wall. It was only a castle when she began, but before very long Sansa knew it was Winterfell.

A Storm of Swords - Sansa VII

Winterfell, he thought. Theon left it burned and broken, but I could restore it. Surely his father would have wanted that, and Robb as well. They would never have wanted the castle left in ruins.

A Storm of Swords - Jon XII

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There is so much foreshadow for this relationship that I always shake my head when people say there is nothing in the books about this romance.

Edited March 30 by prettylongclaw

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murvens-law

Sansa and Bronn

My dudes! Something just occurred to me. Jon is gone. Ghost is gone. The Northern armies are gone. Brienne is emotionally compromised. Bronn just gambled against Cersei in a big way. He let Jaime and Tyrion go. Cersei is winning right now. Bronn is just chilling in Winterfell. I’m not saying he’s going to kidnap Sansa and present her to Cersei as an apology gift… well shit that’s exactly what I’m saying. I could wrong, I just don’t see him deciding to just chillax in Winterfell and not have anymore plot. And I have a hard time imagining Sansa not being a part of the storyline in the south.

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oddsbodskins

Same. I don't see Cersei hitting the bucket without "reuniting" with Sansa???? Jaime, Arya and the hound are going back to KL. Podrick and Brienne would follow where Sansa goes.

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Davos- The match-maker?

One of the reasons I believe that Jonsa will happen as a political match is, Davos keeps hinting about a proposal.

Several years ago, during season 5, I read an article in which Liam Cunningham said that GRRM himself revealed to him a secret (Youtube video, from 5:59 to 6:35) and he said that it would be pretty cool, but he couldn’t tell anyone. This detail caught my eyes and since then I wonder what kind of secret is that. I didn’t think that it was Jon being resurrected or R+L=J, because it was pretty obvious to me at the end of season 5 that he would come back to life in one way or another, and I already figured out Jon’s parentage since season 1. 

At the time of this interview (2013, season 3)  Liam’s character was still serving as Stannis’ Hand and there was no indication (yet) about Davos’ role in the endgame. So why did GRRM reveal the secret only to Liam, but not other actors whose characters seem to have a bigger role in the story? So, after reading this article and watching this interview, I watch Davos more carefully. I always like his character, but after picking up this detail, I think he is crucial to the endgame, so I’ve been paying more attention. 

Because I already suspected that Jon secretly has a crush for Sansa since childhood due to his fondness for red-heads, and in season 5 there was a scene of Sansa lighting up the candle in front of Lyanna’s statue in WF (which is a divergence from the book), Davos also met Jon and was quite fond of Jon in the same season, I started to suspect that there would be something important regarding these 3 characters. 

Then came season 6. When they tried to rally the Northern houses to take back WF, Davos said “But Jon doesn’t have the Stark name” and Sansa responded “No, but I do.” Ofcourse, both Davos and Sansa talked about the legitimacy of their campaign to claim WF, but the way the director directed the scene made it sound like a marriage proposal because of Jon’s (and then Edd’s) reaction and Sansa quickly clarified her statement that Jon had the right to fight and take back WF because he was Ned’s son. Jon was tensed for a moment, then he sighed and relaxed a bit after Sansa’s clarification. It was as if this conversation had switched on something inside him. Definitely, it did not look like he was annoyed because he didn’t have the Stark name. I’ve got a feeling, he had a secret dream to marry Sansa, but he knew it was forbidden so he had to hide it deep in his subconsciousness and he was very afraid if someone found out. So he was always oversensitive if there was just minor hint about such potential.

So, yeah voilà. D&D, I figured out your game. 😏

In season 7 & 8, Davos was working his way to suggest a marriage alliance (between Jon & Dany), so it’s clear that he would be the match-maker. However, with the truth about Jon’s parentage, it makes zero sense for Jon to marry Dany, both morally and politically. Maybe, after the WF battle, Davos will suggest the marriage proposal to Dany & Jon, but Jon will turn it down because he already knows about his parentage, and because he does not want to conceal the truth any further and marry someone he does not love. And that’s when his parentage becomes public knowledge?

Given his suspicious look when seeing Jon’s reaction to Theon about Sansa, I bet Davos would immediately figure out to whom Jon’s heart belongs. And a new proposal will be in store. 😏😏

The great fun is till ahead. 😏😏😏

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kellyvela
Anonymous asked:

What did you take Sansa smile to mean after "who manipulated whom?" I feel stupid for not being able to read it. But I value your opinion on Sansa so here I am.

I’m sorry this take so long Anon :(

During Episode 1, the jonsa scene was cut with a question not answered:

Sansa to Jon: Did you bend the knee to save the North or because you love her?

Sansa is not happy with Jon bending the knee and she’s not sure if Jon did it for the North or because he was in love with Dany and/or was manipulated by Dany’s charms.

This was explained by Sophie Turner:

Right away there are signs of discord between Sansa and Dany. “Sansa is threatened,” Turner says. “She worked so hard to control the North and feels like Jon should be loyal. It’s frustrating to have Daenerys, who she feels is manipulating Jon, come in and take control.”

How is her relationship with Jon now that he’s brought home his new girlfriend?

Her relationship with Jon is struggling because he’s so clearly in love with Daenerys and believes in her completely. Sansa thinks she’s power-hungry and not the rightful queen. There’s a huge amount of fighting between Sansa and Jon.

We don’t know if Jon answered Sansa’s question or he just skipped it.

At the start of Episode 2, Sansa’s attitude towards Dany is the same. Sansa allowed Jaime to stay at Winterfell, against Dany’s wishes, and after the “trial” Sansa didn’t wait for Dany to retire first, Sansa is the one that did it first leaving Dany standing there:

Daenerys is clearly bothered by the way Sansa pivoted the conversation into letting Jaime stay. She seems even more bothered when Sansa walks away from the table without so much as a backwards glance. And then Jon shirks her gaze too, and brushes past without a word. Daenerys is left standing in front of the Northern leaders looking unsupported, and she takes it out on Tyrion in the hallway later. [x]

Moment’s later, after listening Jorah’s advice, Dany went to Sansa and we have this conversation between them:

Dany:  We have other things in common. We’ve both known what it means to lead people who aren’t inclined to accept a woman’s rule. And we’ve both done a damn good job of it, from what I can tell. And yet, I can’t help but feel we’re at odds with one another. Why is that? Your brother.
Sansa: He loves you, you know that.
Dany: That bothers you.
Sansa: Men do stupid things for women. They’re easily manipulated.

Here we have exactly was Sophie Turner explained. She thinks Jon is in love with Dany and his feelings for her were determinant for his decision to bend the knee. 

But Dany’s answer to Sansa’s assertion let her see that the circumstances are different, in fact, the other way around:   

Dany: All my life, I’ve known one goal: the Iron Throne. Taking it back from the people who destroyed my family, and almost destroyed yours. My war was against them. Until I met Jon. Now I’m here, half a world away, fighting Jon’s war alongside him. Tell me, who manipulated whom?  

Here Dany lets Sansa know that if it weren’t for Jon, she wouldn’t be in the North fighting “Jon’s war”. So that’s why Sansa had to smile. She just realized that Jon had to do it. That Jon was the one who manipulated Dany.

This explains Jon’s obsession with the line: WE NEED ALLIES. POWERFUL ALLIES. That is basically the only explanation Jon gave the North so far, as the reason why he bent the knee to Dany.   

As Jon said: The North needs Dany’s dragonglass, the North needs Dany’s armies, the North needs Dany’s dragons. So he did ALL that was necessary to get them and he got them.      

Now Sansa knows. Now Sansa understands. That’s why she smiled, and immediately she changed her attitude:   

Sansa: I should have thanked you the moment you arrived. That was a mistake.

And Dany just kept reciting her love declaration to Jon: 

Dany: I’m here because I love your brother and I trust him and I know he’s true to his word. He’s only the second man in my life I can say that about.

Sansa prevailed in this contest. Sansa got the truth from Dany’s mouth herself. That’s why she smiled Anon. 

And if the “subtext” of this conversation is not enough to explain Jon’s actions, the next scene is another subtle/hidden clue:

Theon to Dany (bending the knee): My queen.
Dany: Your sister? 
Theon: She only has a few ships, and she couldn’t sail them here. So she’s sailing to the Iron Islands instead, to take them back in your name.
Dany: But why aren’t you with her? 
Theon to Sansa: I want to fight for Winterfell, Lady Sansa if you’ll have me.

Theon Greyjoy, another “Not a Stark” like Jon Snow, that grew up with the Stark siblings. Theon Greyjoy, one of the more evident Jon Snow’s foils, is just there calling Dany “My Queen” and bending the knee.

But when Dany questioned him why is he there, at Winterfell and not with Yara, Theon revealed his true motivation: He is one of Dany’s allies, he calls her “My Queen”, he bends the knee to her BUT he wants to fight for the Starks. For Theon this war isn’t just Jon’s war, is his war too.      

Daenerys is confused by Theon Greyjoy’s arrival to Winterfell, though she seems pleased by the sight of another ally sworn to serve her. But then Theon turns to Sansa and says he wants to fight for Winterfell. Daenerys witnesses their embrace, and sees a deep, emotional devotion no Greyjoy has ever shown her. Theon may be serving Queen Daenerys, but his heart is with the Starks and the North.[x]

See?

Theon have sworn to serve Dany in public. Theon calls her “My Queen” in public, BUT he is not with Yara taking back the Iron Islands for Dany. He is there to defend Winterfell, to fight for the Starks and the North. 

And that’s exactly what Jon Snow is doing. Jon is defending his family, his home and his people no matter if he has to call Dany “My Queen” and tell everyone that he bent the knee. 

On the contrary to Theon, Jon Snow have sworn to serve Dany in private and he never actually bent the knee in the proper fashion. He told everyone that he did it, but not really. He is playing a part. 

The article I’am quoting here is a very Pro-Dany one, but is well written despite missing the point of the story. Some readers/watchers/authors are so close to see the light, they explain everything so well but reach the wrong conclusion. But some parts of their analysis are worth to quote:  

Ned Stark’s memory and the fight for the North is the emotional heart of the coming Battle of Winterfell. The Hound once fought for Arya, and now he finds himself protecting her home. Theon’s entire arc has brought him away from Winterfell and the Starks and now back into their arms and service. Ser Davos found a leader in Jon Snow after Stannis was defeated, and Tormund will follow his “little crow” into any fight.
Jaime and Brienne seem to be there primarily for one another at this stage, but Brienne is loyal to the Starks first and foremost. The Knights of the Vale, the remaining brothers of the Night’s Watch, all the Wildlings — they are there because of House Stark.[x]

What can I say Anon? Ah, I know one thing: THE STARKS ARE THE HEART.

Good night.

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The things we do for love

While the line was a direct callback to S1E1, it fits perfectly with this episode thematically. Because 8x02 was about all that: the things these characters will do for love.

I’d like to go through what prompts Bran to say this:

S: You’re right, we can’t trust him. He attacked my father in the streets, he tried to destroy my House and my family, the same as he did yours.
J: You want me to apologize? I won’t. We were at war. Everything I did, I did for my House and my family. I’d do it all again.
B: The things we do for love

After Bran says this line, the camera stays on him, but we see how Dænerys, Jon and Sansa, that are in the background and out of focus, react to him saying this, and then, much like the great hall scene in 8x01, there’s use of a rack focus:

The first one to react is Dæny, then comes Jon, and finally comes Sansa. It’s during her reaction that the focus changes in the shot.

We get Jaime’s reaction as well, because Bran obviously said this line to him, regarding what happened back in S1. But what does the line “the things we do for love” mean for Dæny, Jon and Sansa?

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WE’RE ALL JUST SONGS IN THE END. IF WE ARE LUCKY:  JENNY OF OLDSTONES AND THE PRINCE OF DRAGONFLIES

[x] [x]

Reading this article: Sansa Stark’s Fashion Evolution Through ‘Game Of Thrones’ And How Her Wardrobe Mirrors Her Character, the part about Sansa’s dragonfly, wings, and butterfly symbolisms got my attention:

[…] when Sansa’s dragonfly, wings, and butterfly symbolisms are born. Game of Thrones embroidery and animal motifs, especially with the female characters, employ subtle clues to the characters’ narrative evolutions. Sansa’s “spirit animal” motif is applied to her costume over and over as her character and story develop.
There are many theories about the Stark girl’s flighty, winged creature crest, from Sansa’s moth ring to her embellished gowns. Cersei calls her “little dove,” and winged creatures are traditionally symbols of beauty and fragility. However, I feel that Sansa and her symbolism are far more complex than this. Moths, dragonflies, and butterflies are metamorphic creatures that, despite their visually flimsy allure and delicate nature, evolve and grow as they shift and change. I feel like they are a very apt metaphor for Sansa Stark, who, through her pain due to her fragile place in society as a woman, is never broken entirely. She only evolves and grows as she shifts and changes through self realization.
It is also discussed that the story of The Prince of Dragonflies — a Targaryen prince who gave up the throne to be with his love — influenced Michele Carragher’s choice for Sansa’s personal emblem. Sansa’s obsession with courtly love, which is dashed time and time again, is mirrored in this tragic tale.

That’s why I started to research for references about Sansa & dragonfly symbolism and/or Sansa & the Prince of Dragonflies in the books. And this is what I found: 

My first Jon x Sansa meta originally posted on Tumblr on Oct 11th, 2016.

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