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@fuglyhorses / fuglyhorses.tumblr.com

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Anonymous asked:

i dont know anything about horses why did i scroll through this blog for so long. i have seen so many bad horses, what makes a good horse

Because it's interesting! Depends on the horse and what you want it to do. Overall basic conformation rules that apply to every horse:

The back should appear relatively level from shoulder to butt, with a slight dip in the middle. Too much of a dip is a swayback, no dip is a roach back, both are probably painful and bad. The shoulders can appear higher, but the butt should not be the obvious high point. There's some leeway on this last point for young horses who usually grow into it at least a little.

The neck should be a smooth line on top and bottom. It shouldn't appear to dip in front of the shoulders, and the horse should carry it in a smoothly arched posture while moving around, especially while moving faster than a walk. There should be visible muscle in the neck. It should be long enough that the horse can easily arch it enough so that the forehead is vertical. The head should never be longer than the neck, but in some heavy draft breeds and stocky ponies they'll sometimes look about the same.

All four legs should be vertical and straight when viewed from directly in front or behind. The joints should be as close to in line as possible. When viewed from the side, the long bones of the front legs should be in line above and below the knee. The knee will bulge out a bit, but any joint that looks abnormally large or out of line is an issue.

When looking at the hind legs, the long bone in the lower leg should be as vertical as possible, but this varies with posture. Judge this when a horse is standing calmly on level ground and bearing its weight evenly. The upper long bone in the hind leg absolutely should not be vertical in a neutral weight-bearing posture (when the lower bone is vertical). The closer to vertical, the more wrong it is. If it looks like the horse can easily bend and flex all joints in the hind leg, and the lower bone is often held comfortably vertical but the upper one isn't, you're good. If the movement, legs, and topline are fine, the hip is also probably fine, but you can get really technical with hip angles if you want. It should look like a triangle. Don't worry about it yet.

The feet should all be pointing straight forward, not facing each other or out. The pastern, the short bone just above the hoof, should be long enough to flex as they walk, but not so long that it looks like it's sagging. All four pasterns should be at about the same angle (though they can appear slightly more vertical in the back without issues) and that angle should match the angle of the base of the neck at the shoulder. This is a pretty easily visible line. Generally speaking, longer pasterns and a deeply sloped shoulder angle indicate smoother gaits and a more comfortable ride, and vice versa. Neither is necessarily more desirable, it depends on what activities you're doing. Steeper angles are better for jumping, for example, even if it'll mean a bumpier trot.

Overall, the horse should appear balanced and move freely. There should be visible muscle throughout the body and the coat should appear healthy. There's a wide range of acceptable body types specialized for different tasks, and the horse you choose should have a body type that lets it perform what you ask comfortably.

This is kind of off the top of my head but these rules should be pretty universal (and a perfectly achievable bar for any intentional breeding imo).

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There's also the phenomenon where virtually every breed of every animal gets more extreme over time. Some people will always try for the most dramatic type they can achieve within the breed standard, until that's considered the new default and a new generation rises to push it even further, and that's how you get from a cat to a pipe cleaner in under a hundred years.

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blueboyluca

ok here’s all my rambling thoughts about the future of dog breeding. ignore if it pleases you!

caveats: i am not a dog breeder. i am not involved in dog breeding in any capacity. i have a strong interest in the dog–human relationship and the continuation of that relationship. i own purebred dogs. i have absolutely no animal-related academic qualifications.

so. i think the future of dogs is to move away from dog BREEDS. i think dog people really struggle with this. purebred fans struggle because they instantly have a negative response because they adore their specific breed. mixed breeders also struggle with this because still the focus is on BREEDS and mixing them. and then you have all that shelter dog rhetoric which seems confused in itself by the desire to continue to have dogs but the opposition to dog breeding of any kind (pure breeding is bad but mixed breeding is also bad and registered breeders are unethical but backyard breeders are also dodgy).

i have read lots of different dog books. some published before the real Victorian dog breeding explosion (early to mid 1800s) and some published much later (mostly the 90s to now) exploring and documenting the origin of the dog and the current use of indigenous or primitive dogs. so there are people doing what I’m saying ALREADY, TODAY, AND FOR ALL OF DOG–HUMAN TIME (see: landraces).

but what all this has told me is that the real focus should be TYPES. to look at this, you really need to put aside the concept of dog BREEDS as we know them today. dog BREEDS today are defined by hyper specific breed standards that list in extreme detail what the dog should look like and, to a lesser degree, how it should behave. put that aside.

according to Kim Brophey there are 10 families of dogs (i like her categorisation, it makes sense to me). they are Natural Dog (or spitz), Sighthound, Scenthound, Toy Dog, Guardian, Gun Dog, Terrier, Bull Dog, Herding Dog and World Dog (or pariah). using this as a base, then we would jump into TYPES.

so for example. in early sheep and cow centred Australia (early 1800s on), they needed to come up with dogs that would suit the climate and the work. this meant they developed regional variations of Herding Dogs, taking collies (a type) and bobtails (a type) and anything else they had, and refining that into a heeler (type) and a kelpie/koolie (type). it makes sense to me to have these kinds of variations around general principles of environment, working style, temperament, coat, size, ears, tail – that’s how it’s always been done! with TYPES, you could still end up with hundreds of variations. but the key difference to what we currently operate under would be that TYPES have no hyper specific breed standard and they can interbreed whenever necessary while maintaining a general look/working ability.

take one of the breeds i own – papillon. under this proposed model, dogs that look like this would be Toy Spaniels. and when you go looking for a breeder of Toy Spaniels, different people would breed slight variations – up ears or down ears, shorter muzzle, longer muzzle, taller or shorter. however, the focus would be maintaining an open gene pool and producing healthy dogs while still having a general type and a range of reasonable predictability. that is the key difference here. no standards, no stud books. no discussion about “freaks of nature” because a dog bred with another dog. the sport of conformation would have to also radically change in this scenario. but it’s not like you can’t evaluate structure and form of any dog. if conformation must continue, it could change.

contrary to most dog people i tend to run across, i don’t think we should get more specific when thinking about dog breeding, i think we should get less specific. i understand that some scenarios require specificity, but for the most part we as humans should accept that dogs are as varied as we are, with general predictable traits. and our approach to dog breeding should probably be, IN MY VIEW, to find the dog TYPE that is most suitable for our situation, but still accept the individual characteristics within each dog and that no dog is totally predictable nor should this be expected or desired.

so what i am saying is not NEW. it’s just what people did before the Victorians got weird about it.

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fuglyhorses

This is essentially the system in some warmblood registries where candidates from a pool of multiple breeds are accepted if they meet individual type and performance requirements. The Danish Warmblood registry, for example, will admit horses of any warmblood breed (and TBs and Arabians iirc) if they pass inspection.

It's extremely smart and effective. Focus on type and actual performance potential instead of keeping bloodlines "pure" results in much better and healthier populations. There's more freedom to develop exactly the traits you want if you're not restricted by a shallow gene pool, and it avoids the inbreeding concerns inherent to a closed studbook.

Purists are producing worse animals, basically. At best they're making their jobs a lot harder and involving unnecessary genetic risk.

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I love browsing salty internet communities of hobbies and interests I know nothing about. The circlejerk-subreddits of every hobby. Mean-spirited blogs roasting a product you wouldn't have known how to use before you read a breakdown of how it can't be properly used for that purpose. I am riveted reading peoples' comments on a tumblr for the absolutely shittiest thoroughbread horses. I can look at a photo of a horse and just go "hmm yes. That is a horse." and there's people commenting like "somebody geld this habsburg abomination. Who the fuck corssbred a friesian with a ferret and then inbred the offspring for three generations straight. Disgusting."

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reblogged

Things I knew about horse breeding this morning, before discovering the blog @fuglyhorses : Absolutely nothing.

Things I know about horse breeding now:

A horse should not be shaped like this. If your horse is shaped like this, you have a terrible horse and should not be making more of them.

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Anonymous asked:

Thoughts on polydactyl horses?

Very cool! Very rare. I've never seen one irl that was significant enough to require intervention but I think the extra digits are generally removed if possible. There's a good chance it'll cause issues in a lot of cases, they're not always growing at a good angle or they'll interfere with joint movement. I've seen a few pictures floating around of adult horses with fully developed extra digits, apparently fully functional, but there's no way to say what issues that would cause long-term (if any, I suppose!). As long as no one's actively selecting for this trait (they shouldn't) it's an interesting curiosity whenever it pops up, and probably fun for farriers.

Not strictly fugly because people aren't at fault for this one, but yeah, it's potentially disabling and would require a lot more care in even the best cases.

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fuglyhorses
Anonymous asked:

Bit of a weird request maybe but can you take a look at my horse anatomy and tell me if I need to fix anything? Totally cool if not, I get that that's not the point of this blog, just wanted to ask :)

Yeah, sure.

I can do a casual analysis on a few actually, if anyone wants to send some in that they're fine with me posting. I won't be mean. Uh one horse per request but multiple photos are fine, please try for good square shots on level ground lol.

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hapalopus

Awesome!! Something's up with my colt Moussa but I can't tell what exactly. Especially his hind legs/hooves and his neck?

Also bonus art bc I love my freaky horseboy

Okay, overall anatomy is accurate in that he does appear to have all his bones, which is rare in horse art! He's very skinny in the barrel and it reads a little catlike but stylistically, sure, everything looks great. I think what might not be clicking in the back half is the combination of the thin barrel with the hip anatomy- almost looks like he's got the bones of a larger animal in that area? I would look up some skeletons if you think that would be helpful.

The base of the neck is a little off too, I'd give him a little more wither and deeper shoulder angle to better match his long bouncy pasterns. I would expect animated gaits with this build; he needs a lower angle for freer movement.

I would only be mildly alarmed by this colt irl and would assume some kind of Arabian or Saddlebred cross to something with a shorter neck. Biggest issues in live anatomy would be his long back with short neck, which could impede collection, the lack of withers ("mutton withers"), and his hind legs being a little out of correct alignment due to excessive length, but that's common in young horses and often temporary.

Tl;dr: stylized but he has all his bones! Good job.

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hapalopus

video game face slider

I'm so sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but some Arabians do look like that. The face looks more extreme at a 1/4th angle than in profile, because the broadness of the eye sockets adds to the curvature. But they don't look much better in profile :/

Halter Arabians are a conformational nightmare

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It's so common to see broodmares who are structurally fine but desperately out of shape because they've never been taught anything. It doesn't have to be like this! Give her a year off and ride her around a little! If she absolutely can't be worked, you shouldn't be breeding her anyway.

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Yeah, body condition can be hard to judge from photos sometimes, depending on the breed. Some breeds are just gloriously beefy, some Arabians look like they could blow away. Generally, there shouldn't be so much subcutaneous fat that it starts to obscure muscle contours. When a horse starts to get out of shape because they're not being worked I find you often see it in the neck losing visible muscle first. The boys can get some fat at the crest of the neck but the rest of it will start looking skinny, and their posture always suffers and they start falling out of collection. On the other hand, a horse that's consistently active and well-muscled can often carry a bit more weight and look even better for it. They should never look flabby, but there's nothing better than a sturdy pony fat and glossy on good pasture and ready to go. Muscle should always be visible, seasonal coat considered.

Just stay on top of any fluctuations, work consistently for targeted muscle development to support any weak spots, and talk to your vet about diet. When judging, if something is very wrong, you'll see it. Look at enough fit animals and you'll know when something's up.

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Anonymous asked:

What are your thoughts on horses

too many

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Anonymous asked:

What do you think about marwaris?

I haven't worked with one directly but I know someone with one at her barn that she raves about, super rare here. The ones I've seen have been inconsistent (common issues seem to be wonky hind leg angles, longer backs, weird necks) but some have been really nice. Some really good examples of nice desert types with agility and stamina. I think people use them for polo, which I'm sure they're great at.

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Anonymous asked:

Just found your blog and, to my naive european eyes, it looks like americans are trying to breed their QH to look like pittbulls or german shepherds (in the worst way possible!!)

It's the worst thing ever. It accomplishes nothing but suffering. If they ever decide they want the atrocious shepherd hips too it's gonna look terrible.

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I saw this foal while working at a TB stud farm. She couldn’t straighten her knees, and we were told to pull on her legs a bit when she was lying down (to relax her tendons I guess?). I was working nightshift at the time, and bottle fed her every few hours. She would make the cutest little “neigh” when I entered the stall. Sometimes I had to feed her lying down because she struggled a lot getting up.

She died a couple weeks later sadly, I’m not clear how because I was not there that day. IIrc I was told they had bandaged her legs as straight as they could, and that probably put a lot of stress on her.

Is this tendon flaw a common issue in TBs? Can it be cured or was this foal always doomed?

--

Oh that sucks. Contracted tendons aren’t uncommon in very fresh foals and mild cases often straighten out on their own. If it’s more severe they’ll need bandages/splints/physical therapy, which is what it sounds like they were attempting. In most cases it can be more or less corrected, depending on the initial severity. It’s impossible to say how bad it is from a photo but look at her vertical pasterns. You see that in newborns sometimes* and it generally loosens up without intervention (assuming they inherited the genetics for a normal angle). It looks pretty bad but I wouldn’t say she looks doomed when a lot of it could be just awkward posture and tightness that could self-correct at least a little. It’s certainly not usually a death sentence, there had to be something else going on.

So there are a couple of things that can cause this. The two that I’ve seen cited the most are bad positioning during fetal development, or a recessive gene that’s roughly analogous to clubfoot in people (but I would think probably that could be caused by multiple things as well). I don’t know about TBs specifically, but recessive genes are more likely to pop up regularly in populations with significant inbreeding so you’d likely see this more often in closed studbooks, and especially in intensive linebreeding. If it’s genetic. If it’s a result of positioning, it’s entirely random. In this case, because all four legs seem affected, I’d lean toward this being genetic or secondary to something else.

It’s possible that it’s a side effect of some other condition that could’ve contributed to her death. I’m not a vet and wouldn’t presume to diagnose but there are endless mutations and abnormalities and malformations that can happen with any pregnancy, and all kinds of complicated genetic combinations with unexpected results.   

Poor baby.

* you also sometimes see the opposite, foals with extremely lax tendons, flopping all over the place. 

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Anonymous asked:

Do you think it is possible to fix horses from their unnatural teatless male state so stallions can be proper normal male mammals with nipples again instead of horrible nipless freaks? Apparently male rhinos, their relatively close kin, have proper nipples so I think horses, with careful breeding, can be saved from niplessness.

I have great news for you about donkeys! We're closer than you think.

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