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Fire And Gasoline

@riverofsytx / riverofsytx.tumblr.com

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“Because… you chose her.”

“Liar.”
—— The Empty Hearse

Remember when Sherlock saw but ignored the ‘Liar’ as he deduced Mary? The reason why he didn't have the heart to tell John was not just because he didn't wish for John to think that he was trying to “meddle” with his life, but more importantly, it was because Sherlock felt like he was in no position to hold Mary hostage for being a liar.

Sherlock knew well enough that being the liar he was, as he had lied to save John he had also almost killed him. He knew well enough that Mary‘s lies were what had pulled John back from the brink once more, so how was he in any position to condemn Mary for committing the same crime as he has only with the result of saving John.

And by urging John to forgive Mary‘s lies, how was Sherlock not wishing, wishing, wishing for John to forgive him as well.

I lied to save you, John. I don't give a damn if she lied for her own sake but she ended up saving you nonetheless.

I don't want to die but I killed myself to save you, John. I would die over and over again to save you, I would step off of a building I would let serial killers suffocate me I would shoot a man point-blank for your wife and embrace the consequence of going on a suicide mission with no return. I would, and I have.

I'm sorry that my lies have hurt you, John. But I am never sorry that those lies have saved you.

I lied to save your life, John.

“Because… you chose her.”
—— SHERLOCK, The Empty Hearse

As for the “you chose her”?

It was not the accusation of Sherlock‘s toward John for choosing Mary‘s lies over his. Because how could John not.

Her lies were pretty dresses decorated with promising smiles and overt affection. Her lies were far less harmful than my vacant pulse under your fingertip or my brains splattered on the pavement in front of your eyes.

You chose her. It is what it is.

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Ships and Cars - The Sign of Code

There have been lots of discussions about code in BBC Sherlock, and the possible metaphorical meaning of different things that appear frequently in the show, such as coffee/tea, water/fire, dogs/cats and many more. This show indeed seems filled with ciphers, code and secret messages. In this meta (X) I tried to decipher the encrypted name of the fishing boat that Sherlock and John hijacked in TFP, when it was called upon from Sherrinford: “Golf-Whisky-X-ray”. 

The Ship coding

At first I thought this was referring to the international spelling alphabet for wireless communication (X, X) where there’s a word for each letter. “GWX” didn’t make much sense to me, though, until I stumbled upon something deeper: ‘Golf’, ‘Whisky’ and ‘X-ray’ are also part of the marine Code of Signals (X) that was established in Britain around 1850. It’s still used by water vessels to communicate important messages regarding safety of navigation and such, and the signals can be sent by, for example, flaghoist, signal lamp or flag semaphore. Conan Doyle worked on a ship at least in 1880 and 1881, so the signals could totally have been known to him already in Victorian times. And since Sherlock and John are on board a boat in TFP, 

I think it’s reasonable to assume that the marine code is the relevant one here. In this signal code, the flags for “Golf”, Whisky” and “Xray” mean the following:

Golf = “I require a pilot.” 

Whiskey = “I require medical assistance.”

”Xray = “Stop carrying out your intentions and watch for my signals.”

Which in other words could be read as:

  1. I need a pilot (a maritime pilot to help me navigate)
  2. I need a doctor
  3. Pay attention to code

But is this use of marine signals something that only appears in BBC Sherlock? Is it Mofftiss’ own idea to use them, or could there possibly be any canon references to them? In the discussion that followed my meta (X)  @frailtyofgenius​ pointed out to me that ACD’s canon actually does mention “Naval signals” in His Last Bow (LAST), which I think might be very significant. And the one who uses the naval signals is Holmes himself.

Continued under the cut, because this is reeeally a long ‘transport’… ;)

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A  STRANGE  PERSPECTIVE

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“MAINTAIN DISTANCE OF THREE FEET”

Please pay attention to the writing on the glass.

Sherlock watches Eurus play the violin in her holding cell.

But who is watching Eurus now?  Someone smallish? And near the glass?

Sherlock’s perspective again. Looking down at Eurus feet.

And again the other perspective. Small, near the glass and looking up at Eurus.

Same thing happens when the men are in the holding cell. The writing on the glass is roughly at waist level.

Who is watching the men now. Must be someone who is quite close to the glass and rather small.

Or someone lying on the ground and looking up?

Same perspective from inside of the holding cell looking at the screen. So this onlooker is inside the cell and outsid of it at the same time?

Again …. waist level!

Someone very near the floor …. looking up at Sherlock.

What or who could that be?  Someone lying down?  Someone kneeling?  Or a child?  A dog?  

Or just a cool looking camera perspective after all?

.

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gosherlocked

@ebaeschnbliah: Great observation! Now we know that they love their camera perspectives - think of the very first look at Sherlock from the POV of a corpse. But these are used in a selective way while in TFP these changes in perspective are used quite often. Therefore I would go for a child’s perspective. Which makes sense since I believe that we have not seen all of Sherlock’s childhood. And even if we believed that TFP is real, it could still be a child’s perspective reflecting of how Sherlock is trying to get back to his younger self and to understand what happened to him. 

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sarahthecoat

Also, is the whole looking through three big plate glass windows thing, supposed to remind me of Henry Knight’s house in THOB? Cos it kinda does. And that’s the episode where we started to wonder how much of what we were shown as henry’s trauma, was actually sherlock’s. Like, being the helpless witness to a murder, like https://isitandwonder.tumblr.com/post/142735244561/i-just-watched-horror-europa-a-documentary-by

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Is this little Sherlock watching himself trapped and acting…as an outstanding viewer as in a game? Near the glass, always able to change sides…..this was what came to my mind directly @ebaeschnbliah!!! And btw great catch… never realised this weird angle…

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I love this, @ebaeschnbliah. There are moments like this- perspective change- in HLV that I’ve always meant to go back to and see how it plays out because it gave me the sensation of someone looking up while lying down. You know like after maybe someone * Sherlock * has been shot. 😉 You pointing this out from TFP makes me eager to get home and grab some screencaps from HLV for comparison.

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Oh yes…the lying down factor @monikakrasnorada!!! And there are as well many “flying above view” shot…. like someone unconscious dissociative watching scenes from outside his body….

Thank you all for your wonderful additions. Hope you don’t mind that I gather you all on one post. :) @monikakrasnorada @loveismyrevolution @sarahthecoat

Interestingly the very first thought that came to mind with this kind of angles and perspectives went into a similar direction. Most of all with the ones from above - the BIRD’S EYE SHOTS.  @gosherlocked   An observer who watches how a situation plays out. Sometimes with the eyes of a child and at other times from high above … like someone peeking inside a miniature house. A bit like it is described in ACDs story ‘A case of identity’:

“My dear fellow,” said Sherlock Holmes as we sat on either side of the fire in his lodgings at Baker Street, “life is infinitely stranger than anything which the mind of man could invent. We would not dare to conceive the things which are really mere commonplaces of existence. If we could fly out of that window hand in hand, hover over this great city, gently remove the roofs, and peep in at the queer things which are going on, the strange coincidences, the plannings, the cross-purposes, the wonderful chains of events, working through generation, and leading to the most outre results, it would make all fiction with its conventionalities and foreseen conclusions most stale and unprofitable.”
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riverofsytx

that is holmes, who is sleeping unconsciencely on the floor, drugged himself, I believe. that is yall forgetting bout

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sidryan

noah fence but after sherlock imagined john shutting down his “crack in the lens” talk and saying that he writes about sherlock being a brain without a heart but he doesn’t believe it, he started crying

I NEVER NOTICED THIS IS NO OKAY DAMMIT

HE WANTS JOHN TO SAY THIS SO MUCH HE WANTS JOHN TO KNOW GOD HELP HIM

WHAT THE FUUUUUUU-

STOP KILLING ME!

OMG NOOOOO STOP WHAT Ze FUWQQQ yorudsnmakanxFNSN

HIS BLOODY LACRIMAL GLANDS ARE HYDROUS ARE YOU FLINGING FLANGING KIDDING ME!!!’??!?!1111

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Dear Sherlock,

Sometimes I remember this man:

Who then slowly became this man

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And cares so much now:

And I smile.

I remember the man who said:

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And then, admitted:

And then declared to a roomful of people

“There was one, and only one feature of interest in this baffling case, and quite frankly, it was the usual: John Watson.”

Who gave John this look before giving up his work, his life, and everything:

Who so hesitantly, but finally did this:

And this time, tears well up in my eyes as I smile.

You were, and will always be a great man, Sherlock, but I think that slowly, you’re becoming a good man too.

So congratulations, my love

AND A VERY HAPPY BIRTHDAY.

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notjustamumj

<3 <3 <3

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yan-yae

Still EMP or coma

I just noticed something in HLV in the minute 45’. Please watch when Sherlock supposedly go out of his mind palace. Sherlock is considering Mary and when he come back the monitor behind him, showing us his heartbeat, starts going back and not forward. The monitor is running backwards, from right to left. When he is talking to Janine, in the minute 43'40", the monitor runs well, from left to right. I don’t know how put the gif from the two scenes so please go and watch and tell me I don’t go crazy. @monikakrasnorada @isitandwonder @multivariate-madness @stillgosherlocked @gryssenielsen @mylastvow

@yan-yae: Wow, great catch! I checked it and you are absolutely right. And you know what? They show us the heart monitor again and again, they are practically rubbing it in. Look, he has a heart monitor, the line is going from left to right as it should. And then, after the Mary deduction when he supposedly comes to, it changes direction. Maybe he never comes out of his MP. Which would mean that thinking about Mary leads him to playing through ideas of how to show John who she is and what she did. Which would explain the boltholes everyone knows about, Mycroft calmly sitting in his office when his brother’s life is in danger, and everything that follows.

They really do rub it in @stillgosherlocked. The amplitude rises when Janine turns the morphine down or when Sherlock moves. And then suddenly in this very short scene after the Mary deduction it runs backwards - it’s a blink and you miss it moment. What’s this scene even needed for? The audience knows that Sherlock is in hospital from the Janine scene. It’s barely 5 sec long. And Sherlock just raises his head. He has even turned his morphine down before. And the scene is followed by John and Lestrade finding his empty room… I’d say the scene is unnecessary exept for the heart monitor. For the way we look at pictures (usually from left to right) the monitor would be the first thing we’d notice when watching this scene. Hell…

@isitandwonder: I just had a short look at the episode. Even before the Janine scene we get at least 10 shots of a heart monitor in the operation theatre. I would say such appliances are shown at least 20 times within a few minutes of footage. They could also have arrows pointing at the heart monitors telling us where to look. 

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doomsteady

I got you, fams. Bad quality gifs ahoy!

Fowards:

Forwards again:

BACKWARDS:

But oh, what’s this? Doesn’t that whole footage look a bit… reversed? Why yes. Yes it is.

HE’S NOT COMING OUT OF HIS MIND PALACE. HE’S GOING INTO IT.

@yan-yae I AM SCREAMING!!! I’m sorry but I have to say this is fucking me the fuck up! I went back and watched the Janine scene, and I was like, what? Wait. That monitor is doing it’s normal thing, but then. BUT THEN…he ‘supposedly’ comes BACK from his mind palace confrontation of “Mary Watson, who are you?” and the MONITOR IS RUNNING BACKWARDS!!!!! And, then, @doomsteady, you perfect thing, you! You put the gifs here and JUST LOOK AT THAT. Not ONLY is the monitor running backwards, but this entire little scene is the REVERSE of him going into his mind palace!!!!!!!!!!

What does this mean? Which is it? Forwards or backwards??? I’m with @isitandwonder, WHY IS THIS SCENE EVEN HERE???? I keep going on and on about how odd the whole thing is- why is Janine not the worried almost-fiancee? Where are the standard questions we would expect: How are you? What happened? I’m okay, are you okay???? Instead we get absurd and frankly ridiculous tabloid headlines about Sherlock. AND, not even things like: SHERLOCK HOLMES IS A BACK-STABBING MANIPULATIVE BASTARD. No, oh no! We get all these salacious tales of Sherlock being a fucking amazing lay????? SERIOUSLY??? I mean, Sherlock seems like he’d be an attentive lover, imo. He seems to be a very sensuous person but, ahem. He’s GAY. Right?? That entire scene is so over the top and unreal. But now, this added in to the mix?? I’m flailing!!!!!!

WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING

Yeah, I just checked the scene. @doomsteady @yan-yae Holy crap. HOLY CRAP.  HE’S NOT COMING OUT OF HIS MIND PALACE. HE’S GOING INTO IT.

The scene is reversed!???!!!!!!! On PURPOSE! You cannot tell me that they needed to run it backwards to get the effect they wanted…..they knew exactly what they were doing. It’s like that on purpose. He’s not coming out. He’s going in. HOLY FUCKING SHIT. SORRY BUT OMG. It’s all about one thing now…forwards or backwards:

what…the…fuuuu

YES PLEASE READ THIS VERY IMPORTANT AND SPECTACULARLY AMAZING CATCH BECAUSE THIS IS WHY S4 IS SO MESSED UP.

The heart rate monitor is deliberately going reverse and shot cleverly so that the monitor is the only clue for you to deduce that Sherlock is actually going into his mind palace and not coming out of it.

The lines between reality and mind palace started getting thin here and now it’s all mixed up for him!!

This makes me think that whatever happened after this is not reliably informed to us. John may never have forgiven Mary and whatever we see beyond this point maybe a jumble of reality and Sherlock’s MP. And by the time it’s S4, Sherlock is deep in it. Just creating nonsensical reality with his strong emotions in the mix to worsen things.

It’s an elaborate plan by Mofftiss…..time to write another S4 meta

Just to reiterate how things are messed up after this scene

Mary is reading the book written by Mrs Holmes named “THE DYNAMICS OF COMBUSTION”

That has a chapter named The Thyroid Gland?!?!?!

More to come on such fuckery….

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lukessense

Seems pretty accurate to me to have a chapter about an hormone producing and metabolism controlling organ inside of a book about the dynamics of combustion. Metaphorically speaking of course :)

„I am on fire!“ - Sherlock in TGG

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And there’s Sherlock, in the loneliest place on Earth - in the middle of a dance floor, no partner, all the couples swirling around him.
--The Sign of Three Final Shooting Script
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Can I Be of Assistance? BBC Sherlock and The Secret of Sherlock Holmes

The Secret of Sherlock Holmes was a play written by Jeremy Paul, who also wrote several episodes of the Granada series. Paul and Jeremy Brett, who had been friends for two decades before this play was produced, would often talk about Sherlock Holmes and his origins. During one of these discussions, Brett commissioned this play from Paul; it contains many of Brett’s own theories about the character so many people identified with him. The play was meant to be a one-off, starring Jeremy Brett and Edward Hardwicke in their famous roles, in celebration of the 100th anniversary of A Study in Scarlet. However, it was met with such enthusiasm that it ended up running for a full year (1988/1989), rather to the detriment of Brett’s health.

As a refresher, the Granada series ran from 1984 to 1995. The first season ended with The Final Problem, and the second ended with The Bruce–Partington Plans (episodes did not follow the order of Watson’s writings or any chronological order of occurrence). The play ran between the second and third seasons.

There will be lots of spoilers below the cut, so if you’d like to experience the play before reading, please click here for an audio recording of the original performance in two parts. Unfortunately, the play was never filmed. Also unfortunately, the audio becomes very poor around 19:20 in the second audio link. I promise it never gets loud again after that (except an exclamation or two by Jeremy Brett, of course!), so feel free to turn up your volume.

Before I read The Secret of Sherlock Holmes, I expected it to be entirely in keeping with the Granada series. It’s not. The series and the play differ in tone and content. There are no cases, and Holmes and Watson are the only characters. Stories that had already been adapted in Granada turn up in the play in different forms, but only to serve their relationship. The play adapts the subtext of the stories, rather than the text, which is something Granada rarely did, and mainly in the later episodes, like The Eligible Bachelor.

In the context of Sherlock, this means that The Secret of Sherlock Holmes is a greater source than the Granada series was, because the play was original in ways that the series wasn’t (perils of being faithful to the surface narratives of the stories). I’m going to talk about how the play adapted the Doyle stories, and how those choices are reflected in Sherlock, because as we know, “Everything is canon”.

The play develops the Holmes and Watson relationship from the time they meet and move in together, until some time after Holmes returns to Watson after faking his death in the Reichenbach. Along the way, they each address the audience to tell us secrets they keep from each other; the action (so to speak) culminates in a discussion of Moriarty’s role in their lives. 

Love, loss, lies, and John Watson being pretty damned smart, under the cut.

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Not my video, but here are various Sherlock / Bond film references, going back to Sherlock S1. This is missing many references from S4, however, such as the chess match, the posthumous video from M with directions for S/Bond’s next move, the Moroccan interior location, S/B in a beanie, etc @may-shepard @gosherlocked @isitandwonder @sherlockians-get-bored @swimmingfeelsinajohnlockianpool @teaandqueerbaiting @whimsicalethnographies @worriesconstantly

Yeah, this is great! I think it’s by @goodmythicalmail?

✌️️ i did edit it — although i’m just now realising that i spent like half an hour sourcing the beanie clips and accidentally deleted it from the final cut lmao

It’s a really great video though @goodmythicalmail

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I have this theory @johnlockiseternal  that Sherlock was indirectly responsible for his parents dying. They suddenly appear in TEH, after years of being spoken of in the past tense (Ex: “You know how it always upset Mummy”). When they do in TEH, they’re mirrors for Sherlock and John, and in HLV they’ve become “a fine example of married life” (as opposed to John and Mary). The Princess Diana conspiracy is based on the fact that the car she was in was from a hotel car pool, and was supposed to have already been scrapped, because it had been in a terrible accident before hers. It was near a bridge, and a tunnel of water, a la things in S4 and also, Stay. Also, how believable is it that there was a Sister Edgelord that Sherlock’s parents never mentioned after she supposedly died? I’ve been around parents grieving the loss of a child, and that’s not how it works. Also, they would attend a fake funeral, if they knew it was to protect the story being made public.

So, what if the scenario is actually that Sherlock was in car wreck with them, and that is why Rosie is born in a car? Some noise or distraction he made in the vehicle, threw off the situation, rather like the film Premonition (Housewife experiences the days surrounding her husband’s death in a non-chronological order, and how she attempts to save him.) Rosie is Sherlock’s inner child, and the future he hands to John, but this might also represent where the Sherlock that made himself, began. He rewrote his own story in order to forget what he’d done, and is then raised by Mycroft and Uncle Rudi (for legal purposes, since Mycroft would have been underage). Eurus is also a Sherlock mirror, just an older version, the broken pieces of himself that need to be put back together so that the Rosie mirror works in the end of TFP.

I once did a meta about some of this, but it has a lot more commentary and images, as well as being somewhat geared toward unreliable narrator or editing. Also, because of the transition scene of the train debris looking like a waterfall, it overlaps with the meta from the other day about trains, THoB, and two kinds of vinyl (Top/Bottom and/or Fake/Real). Ties into EMP, so also tagging @monikakrasnorada and @gosherlocked

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The Mystery of the Dwindling Color Scheme - Blue Twins (Or how threads/clothing reveal the path back to 221B.)

So, the game appears to be that unless you are standing in with/for Sherlock, if you believe him dead or distrust him, then you are Blue. Mrs. Hudson brightens up, once she knows Sherlock is alive. Molly already knew, so she never had this drab color scheme.

Prior to TRF, look at Moriarty. He wears the same tie in ASiB and TRF. Now, look at Mrs. Hudson’s dress in TEH (below).

John with Sherlock on the brain, and he is the BAMF! that goes to get Westie with his turned up coat collar.

Fast Forward…

The Empty Hearse

The Sign of Three

Where Lestrade spends the photo session and reception looking a bit dubious about the proceedings. Archie isn’t innocent, but he hasn’t been around long enough to understand the layers of feeling between John, Sherlock, Mary, and David. Sherlock and John are perfectly matched, except John’s fob is gold, and Sherlock’s is silver.

His Last Vow

Notice John is wearing the same outfit he had on when Sherlock jumped off the roof in TRF. It’s been years, his best friend (lover) supposedly died when he was wearing that outfit before–what are the odds he would keep that outfit after that? Also, recall that the people in the scene when John was pulled away from Sherlock, had the same blue color scheme.

John is doubting, so he is looking a little grayish blue above, but at Christmas he’s got some of his Faith (Sherlock) back, so he’s in bright colors, again.

Once he realizes Magnussen has bested Sherlock, he’s like…oh! Twins!

It’s never twins, though…right? John mentions them in present day, and in TAB.

Not sure of this? Then check out all the times Sherlock tried to remind himself of twins…

Repeating a case, but supposedly not remembering that?

Sherlock: Intuitions are not to be ignored, John. They represent data processed too fast for the conscious mind to comprehend.

John: Well, you said it was like The Exorcist. They’re two different things. She can’t be the devil and the Antichrist.

 Theo Martin (the blue Power Ranger) has a twin brother named Luen. Charlie is a Sherlock twin.

From canon, the web quote about Moriarty. The numbers are getting smaller. No loose threads…

Sherlock wearing the same scarf he had on when he killed Magnussen, so they had to edit that. Instead of John, Sherlock has his twin.

Sherlock: When does the path we walk on lock around our feet? When does the road become a river with only one destination? Death waits for us all in Samarra. But can Samarra be avoided?

Not three Sherlock, two. Three only works though, because TRF (Sherlock, John, and Mycroft).

Twins…2 2 1 B Baker Street. (twins twins 1 doesn’t work so B second letter of the alphabet)

That’s why we see John beating up Sherlock only as a flashback or memory, a confession to something that can’t be recorded by Lestrade, because it’s Sherlock kickstarting himself to wake up. It’s Sherlock’s combined memories of the punch from John in ASiB (with reverse damage from what Irene points out John tried to avoid) and John punching Lestrade’s boss in TRF (who wears practically the same outfit John did to the trial, where Sherlock only visits in his Mind Palace). Did Sherlock ever make it to the roof or did he stop short with figuring out possibilities? (13 1+3=4 or 3-1=Twins No Mycroft, and no Mary Just Sherlock and John.)

Tags: @ebaeschnbliah @swimmingfeelsinajohnlockianpool @tendergingergirl @raggedyblue @gosherlocked @devoursjohnlock @possiblyimbiassed @sarahthecoat @not-a-bit-good

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Kitty Riley: Look him up. Rich Brook, an actor Sherlock Holmes hired to be Moriarty.
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riverofsytx

he is almost about to jump on moriarty, oh shit.

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Sherlock the Christ Figure & Mary - (The) Madonna or ?

This has been brewing for awhile, but S4 made a perfect way to contemplate my issues with the scene above. MADONNA is plastered across John’s head, and perhaps it is the entertainer. You know, the 80′s - ? gay icon, that these days sometimes gets censured, because she may/may not have used homosexuality as a means of making money. She still participates in events to support the LGBTQA+ community, even at major awards shows. That said…

Sherlock is of the age to know about this phenomenon, and he knows about hair product, underwear worn by gay men, etc, so how is that he doesn’t know who she is? From a previous meta about Two Kinds (heart/brain, leather/vinyl *coughs*, and real/fake):

Or does he, and he was lying in the Stag Night scene?

They never showed us the gay club scene that supposedly filmed, and I’ve often wondered if Madonna ended up in the trackings for this scene.

As Sherlock has traditionally been a Christ figure, even been through physical torture…

What do we make of Mary? She stole her identity from a stillborn child of 1972, the same year Gay News became a publication in Great Britain, the same year Mycroft mentions in TRF the Diogenes Club members don’t want a repeat of, because it would upset the “tea trolley”. From ACD’s canon The Greek Interpreter: “The Diogenes Club is the queerest club in London, and Mycroft one of the queerest men.” She ends up dying at the end of T6T, an episode where Craig mentions to Sherlock that “Time is a great leveller, innit?

Of course, there is the Mary Magdalene possibility, who btw was not a prostitute (that’s not even in the canonical Gospels, and didn’t became an idea until the Middle Ages). Like Mary, she came from another place, and became attached to the concept of a repentant. She also had associations with perfume, albeit of course, not the type they made up for Mary in HLV, which was then carried over into TAB as the way John should have recognized her. (I won’t go into how we barely had enough time to get over the scent of her perfume in the air when she shot Sherlock, before we were supposed to embrace her as a mother figure–another Mary–especially since Rosie is a Sherlock mirror/inner child, born in an unorthodox location, which he hands as his future and life over to John at the heteronormative idyllic ending of TFP).

Then too, Mary Magdalene supposedly had seven devils/demons cast out of her, and who are the people Mary has been mirroring? Irene, Moriarty, Kitty Riley, Ian from Janus Cars, Magnussen, possibly Mycroft, and once Mary dies–we have Eurus rise from her ashes, “your demons have been waiting for a very long time”.

A bit of Mary information for those that are interested in the gnostic aspects of her figure (Magdalene and Mother of Christ): a pre-Christian sect of Mary worshippers known as the Collyridians baked honey cakes to be consumed with milk or wine for their version of a sacred meal, because honey and bees were sacred to her. Prior to Christianity becaming a more concrete religion, Mary derived some of her characteristics from Isis, Venus, and Aphrodite, who also all had the honey and bee association. Mummy Holmes and Mary are both shown with stars as symbols in their homes and jewelry, and this is also a symbol used by the previous deities. Then there are the associations with water, and procreation.

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