I’m rehoming some of my Egyptian/kemetic stuff. Specifically my Anubis stuff.

Anyone within a driveable distance from Ottawa want a 2.5ft tall Anubis statue holding a plate that can be used to hold a plant or offerings, and a 6ish inch Anubis statue with a broken ear? I’d rather they go to someone who worships him despite this being a long shot lol. He is just, WAY too large to ship despite not weighing a lot. 

You’d need to pick him up but he’s free and we can go out for bubble tea while you’re here lol.

I don’t work with Anubis, and have a very small apartment anyway, but I just need to come here and flail madly in excitement because you’re in Ottawa, too?!?  I would love some IRL Kemetic community, but while I’ve met several Pagans, I’ve yet to meet another Kemetic. Pls come be my friend, or something!?

So I guess I’m an atheist, now.

And I should probably stop avoiding the making of this post.  NGL though, I’m worried about potential backlash.

A week or so ago, I made this post about whether or not the Gods are real.  Several people gave me interesting things to think about.  I read all the responses, even though I didn’t respond or reblog them, because sometimes I’m a dumb who doesn’t know what to say.  Suffice to say, I’ve been doing a metric fucktonne of thinking about this subject.  

I have been forced to conclude that I do not have sufficient evidence to believe in Gods, any Gods, much as I desperately want to believe the Netjeru are real.  I’m not saying the Gods are absolutely not real, because I don’t know, but I don’t currently have the evidence to confirm Their existence, and I can’t rightly believe in Them until I do.

There’s some irony that one of the main things that led me to this conclusion is ma’at, and the importance of truth to the upholding of ma’at.  Part of living in ma’at is endeavouring to believe as many true things as possible.

The thing is, this whole religion thing is actually pretty great, and I don’t want to abandon it completely.  Ma’at gives me a meaningful moral philosophy, and the idea that we are helping the Gods fight the Entropic Serpent by upholding ma’at and fighting isfet in our own lives is encouraging and comforting to me.  Further, the acts of doing my religion, like giving offerings, and saying prayers is comforting, and fulfills a need I have for ritual and ceremony in my life.  Doing Kemeticism, and living in ma’at is still meaningful and important to me, even though I cannot say the Netjeru are truly, really, real.  (And ancient Egypt is still pretty damn interesting.)

Honestly, I’m still getting used to this paradigm shift in my brain.  In most ways, nothing in my life has changed.  I still try to live in ma’at.  I still say prayers, or give offerings when I’m moved to do so.  I’m still planning on more Seshat nail art heka for my upcoming thesis defence.  Because whether the Gods exist or not, these things still help me, and for that reason, I’m going to keep doing them.

Maybe, as I continue this way, I’ll gradually stop doing things like prayers, because I no longer believe anyone is listening.  Maybe it will start to feel hollow.  Maybe.  I don’t know.  Or maybe something will happen to me that will cause me to believe again.  But I’m going to do things this way and see what happens.  This religion thing has turned out to be some kind of journey, and I don’t know where or how it ends.

Somewhat unexpectedly for me, the one thing my changed outlook does affect is this tumblr.  This is because, while I’m not particularly changing how I do my religion, how I think about it, and consequently, talk about it, has changed, and I don’t really know how that’s going to translate to something like Tumblr.  For example, while I still love Seshat, her imagery, associations, and symbols, saying that I am devoted to her, follow her, or work with her have connotations that are now inaccurate.  I don’t really have the words for the thing I am trying now.  And I don’t want to give the impression that I believe a thing which I do not.

It’s the truth part of ma’at again.  Being honest and truthful is also part of living in ma’at.  I mean, that’s the whole point of finally sitting my butt down and writing this post, to be honest about what’s happening with my religiousity, to not mislead people, even accidentally whenever possible.  Because if you, my followers, want to follow someone who believes in the Gods, you should know that, currently, that’s not me.

Well, I guess, if you want to shun me and ostracise me from the community for not believing anymore, you can start that now.  I rather hope you won’t, though.  For what it’s worth, I still think of myself as Kemetic, as someone who is doing the religion, even if I don’t exactly believe it anymore.  But I don’t know if there’s ever been any kind of community consensus on whether an atheist Kemetic is a possible thing that can exist.

(That awkward pause, and ‘so, I guess that’s it’ that comes at the end of presentations.)

Thank you for reading.

I think we all go through this at some point. We are, in effect, being asked to blindly believe in the existence of imperfect but more powerful beings than ourselves. It’s really hard to continue that when there is no empirical evidence of their existence.

I went through a similar thing for the last three years. I thought they were real but how did I know? Wasn’t it possible I was really having a breakdown when I thought I heard them? Wasn’t it possible that my mental illness was manifesting in what I thought were directives from the gods?

I came out the other side of that on a different path from you, but I did come out of it eventually. So not sure if that helps or not, but there you go.

That said, I agree with TTR. I think a lack of belief in the gods doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t still follow ma'at or be a Kemetic. You’ll get a lot of flack of course because a lot of Kemetics are too focused on the gods aspect with clearly and obviously not enough focus on ma'at. But that lack of belief doesn’t mean you can’t still follow ma'at or live in it. It just means it looks different from others.

This is something I deal with periodically.  (Hi, everyone, still not dead, still lurking, grad school is a pain.)  My brain’s not really set up for belief, I don’t think; I’m agnostic at best.  

But in the end I still have relationships with the Netjeru.  Their myths, symbolism, concepts, and “personalities” have meaning for me.  My contact with these ideas and these gods has meaning for me.  Sometimes I go through a period where I freak out about worshipping gods I don’t believe in, and how I’m imagining everything; but the truth is that those relationships work and have positive effects on my life somehow even if they are existentially doubtful.  

“What would Heru-sa-Aset say about this?” actually turns out to still be a useful question whether HSA exists or not.  And paying my respects to the universe (leaving offerings, keeping a shrine, prayer) feels good, and if the Netjeru are the form that I choose to pay respects to when I pay respects to the universe, that’s working for me. I have heard no complaints from either the Netjeru or the universe.  

Anyway, my experiences are not your experiences, etc, but take heart: you’re not the only one!

No you are not an atheist you are AWAKENED

What does that even mean?

I think your tags are right, they are probably implying theists are stupid.

Yeeeeah, I really wish people wouldn’t do that. It’s unhelpful, and basically shuts down any possibility of meaningful discussion on the topic. I didn’t suddenly become smarter when I became an atheist. That’s not how that works. :/

(Of course, I get annoyed when theists, Christians mostly, claim that atheists are all immoral hedonists who deny God just so they can sin more. My morality didn’t change with my beliefs any more than my intelligence did. )

So I guess I’m an atheist, now.

And I should probably stop avoiding the making of this post.  NGL though, I’m worried about potential backlash.

A week or so ago, I made this post about whether or not the Gods are real.  Several people gave me interesting things to think about.  I read all the responses, even though I didn’t respond or reblog them, because sometimes I’m a dumb who doesn’t know what to say.  Suffice to say, I’ve been doing a metric fucktonne of thinking about this subject.  

I have been forced to conclude that I do not have sufficient evidence to believe in Gods, any Gods, much as I desperately want to believe the Netjeru are real.  I’m not saying the Gods are absolutely not real, because I don’t know, but I don’t currently have the evidence to confirm Their existence, and I can’t rightly believe in Them until I do.

There’s some irony that one of the main things that led me to this conclusion is ma’at, and the importance of truth to the upholding of ma’at.  Part of living in ma’at is endeavouring to believe as many true things as possible.

The thing is, this whole religion thing is actually pretty great, and I don’t want to abandon it completely.  Ma’at gives me a meaningful moral philosophy, and the idea that we are helping the Gods fight the Entropic Serpent by upholding ma’at and fighting isfet in our own lives is encouraging and comforting to me.  Further, the acts of doing my religion, like giving offerings, and saying prayers is comforting, and fulfills a need I have for ritual and ceremony in my life.  Doing Kemeticism, and living in ma’at is still meaningful and important to me, even though I cannot say the Netjeru are truly, really, real.  (And ancient Egypt is still pretty damn interesting.)

Honestly, I’m still getting used to this paradigm shift in my brain.  In most ways, nothing in my life has changed.  I still try to live in ma’at.  I still say prayers, or give offerings when I’m moved to do so.  I’m still planning on more Seshat nail art heka for my upcoming thesis defence.  Because whether the Gods exist or not, these things still help me, and for that reason, I’m going to keep doing them.

Maybe, as I continue this way, I’ll gradually stop doing things like prayers, because I no longer believe anyone is listening.  Maybe it will start to feel hollow.  Maybe.  I don’t know.  Or maybe something will happen to me that will cause me to believe again.  But I’m going to do things this way and see what happens.  This religion thing has turned out to be some kind of journey, and I don’t know where or how it ends.

Somewhat unexpectedly for me, the one thing my changed outlook does affect is this tumblr.  This is because, while I’m not particularly changing how I do my religion, how I think about it, and consequently, talk about it, has changed, and I don’t really know how that’s going to translate to something like Tumblr.  For example, while I still love Seshat, her imagery, associations, and symbols, saying that I am devoted to her, follow her, or work with her have connotations that are now inaccurate.  I don’t really have the words for the thing I am trying now.  And I don’t want to give the impression that I believe a thing which I do not.

It’s the truth part of ma’at again.  Being honest and truthful is also part of living in ma’at.  I mean, that’s the whole point of finally sitting my butt down and writing this post, to be honest about what’s happening with my religiousity, to not mislead people, even accidentally whenever possible.  Because if you, my followers, want to follow someone who believes in the Gods, you should know that, currently, that’s not me.

Well, I guess, if you want to shun me and ostracise me from the community for not believing anymore, you can start that now.  I rather hope you won’t, though.  For what it’s worth, I still think of myself as Kemetic, as someone who is doing the religion, even if I don’t exactly believe it anymore.  But I don’t know if there’s ever been any kind of community consensus on whether an atheist Kemetic is a possible thing that can exist.

(That awkward pause, and ‘so, I guess that’s it’ that comes at the end of presentations.)

Thank you for reading.

I think we all go through this at some point. We are, in effect, being asked to blindly believe in the existence of imperfect but more powerful beings than ourselves. It’s really hard to continue that when there is no empirical evidence of their existence.

I went through a similar thing for the last three years. I thought they were real but how did I know? Wasn’t it possible I was really having a breakdown when I thought I heard them? Wasn’t it possible that my mental illness was manifesting in what I thought were directives from the gods?

I came out the other side of that on a different path from you, but I did come out of it eventually. So not sure if that helps or not, but there you go.

That said, I agree with TTR. I think a lack of belief in the gods doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t still follow ma'at or be a Kemetic. You’ll get a lot of flack of course because a lot of Kemetics are too focused on the gods aspect with clearly and obviously not enough focus on ma'at. But that lack of belief doesn’t mean you can’t still follow ma'at or live in it. It just means it looks different from others.

This is something I deal with periodically.  (Hi, everyone, still not dead, still lurking, grad school is a pain.)  My brain’s not really set up for belief, I don’t think; I’m agnostic at best.  

But in the end I still have relationships with the Netjeru.  Their myths, symbolism, concepts, and “personalities” have meaning for me.  My contact with these ideas and these gods has meaning for me.  Sometimes I go through a period where I freak out about worshipping gods I don’t believe in, and how I’m imagining everything; but the truth is that those relationships work and have positive effects on my life somehow even if they are existentially doubtful.  

“What would Heru-sa-Aset say about this?” actually turns out to still be a useful question whether HSA exists or not.  And paying my respects to the universe (leaving offerings, keeping a shrine, prayer) feels good, and if the Netjeru are the form that I choose to pay respects to when I pay respects to the universe, that’s working for me. I have heard no complaints from either the Netjeru or the universe.  

Anyway, my experiences are not your experiences, etc, but take heart: you’re not the only one!

No you are not an atheist you are AWAKENED

What does that even mean?

Seshat nail art in three easy steps.  Done over three days, it probably took me around 3 hours total to do, drawing tiny leopard spots, and then drawing and redrawing tiny hieroglyphs.  But I was doing my nails for a very special occasion.

I defended my thesis, and BECAME A DOCTOR!!!

I did spend a long time on my nails, but I spent way more time preparing for my  defence.  That was probably the most intense three hours of my life, and two days later, it still hasn’t really sunk in that I did it.

I chose the hieroglyphs to be encouraging, ‘speech’, ‘speak’, ‘words’, ‘truth’ and ‘Seshat’, who is the Goddess of scribes, libraries, and knowledge.

Also relevant to this blog, because Seshat.

So I guess I’m an atheist, now.

And I should probably stop avoiding the making of this post.  NGL though, I’m worried about potential backlash.

A week or so ago, I made this post about whether or not the Gods are real.  Several people gave me interesting things to think about.  I read all the responses, even though I didn’t respond or reblog them, because sometimes I’m a dumb who doesn’t know what to say.  Suffice to say, I’ve been doing a metric fucktonne of thinking about this subject.  

I have been forced to conclude that I do not have sufficient evidence to believe in Gods, any Gods, much as I desperately want to believe the Netjeru are real.  I’m not saying the Gods are absolutely not real, because I don’t know, but I don’t currently have the evidence to confirm Their existence, and I can’t rightly believe in Them until I do.

There’s some irony that one of the main things that led me to this conclusion is ma’at, and the importance of truth to the upholding of ma’at.  Part of living in ma’at is endeavouring to believe as many true things as possible.

The thing is, this whole religion thing is actually pretty great, and I don’t want to abandon it completely.  Ma’at gives me a meaningful moral philosophy, and the idea that we are helping the Gods fight the Entropic Serpent by upholding ma’at and fighting isfet in our own lives is encouraging and comforting to me.  Further, the acts of doing my religion, like giving offerings, and saying prayers is comforting, and fulfills a need I have for ritual and ceremony in my life.  Doing Kemeticism, and living in ma’at is still meaningful and important to me, even though I cannot say the Netjeru are truly, really, real.  (And ancient Egypt is still pretty damn interesting.)

Honestly, I’m still getting used to this paradigm shift in my brain.  In most ways, nothing in my life has changed.  I still try to live in ma’at.  I still say prayers, or give offerings when I’m moved to do so.  I’m still planning on more Seshat nail art heka for my upcoming thesis defence.  Because whether the Gods exist or not, these things still help me, and for that reason, I’m going to keep doing them.

Maybe, as I continue this way, I’ll gradually stop doing things like prayers, because I no longer believe anyone is listening.  Maybe it will start to feel hollow.  Maybe.  I don’t know.  Or maybe something will happen to me that will cause me to believe again.  But I’m going to do things this way and see what happens.  This religion thing has turned out to be some kind of journey, and I don’t know where or how it ends.

Somewhat unexpectedly for me, the one thing my changed outlook does affect is this tumblr.  This is because, while I’m not particularly changing how I do my religion, how I think about it, and consequently, talk about it, has changed, and I don’t really know how that’s going to translate to something like Tumblr.  For example, while I still love Seshat, her imagery, associations, and symbols, saying that I am devoted to her, follow her, or work with her have connotations that are now inaccurate.  I don’t really have the words for the thing I am trying now.  And I don’t want to give the impression that I believe a thing which I do not.

It’s the truth part of ma’at again.  Being honest and truthful is also part of living in ma’at.  I mean, that’s the whole point of finally sitting my butt down and writing this post, to be honest about what’s happening with my religiousity, to not mislead people, even accidentally whenever possible.  Because if you, my followers, want to follow someone who believes in the Gods, you should know that, currently, that’s not me.

Well, I guess, if you want to shun me and ostracise me from the community for not believing anymore, you can start that now.  I rather hope you won’t, though.  For what it’s worth, I still think of myself as Kemetic, as someone who is doing the religion, even if I don’t exactly believe it anymore.  But I don’t know if there’s ever been any kind of community consensus on whether an atheist Kemetic is a possible thing that can exist.

(That awkward pause, and ‘so, I guess that’s it’ that comes at the end of presentations.)

Thank you for reading.

I think we all go through this at some point. We are, in effect, being asked to blindly believe in the existence of imperfect but more powerful beings than ourselves. It’s really hard to continue that when there is no empirical evidence of their existence.

I went through a similar thing for the last three years. I thought they were real but how did I know? Wasn’t it possible I was really having a breakdown when I thought I heard them? Wasn’t it possible that my mental illness was manifesting in what I thought were directives from the gods?

I came out the other side of that on a different path from you, but I did come out of it eventually. So not sure if that helps or not, but there you go.

That said, I agree with TTR. I think a lack of belief in the gods doesn’t necessarily mean you can’t still follow ma'at or be a Kemetic. You’ll get a lot of flack of course because a lot of Kemetics are too focused on the gods aspect with clearly and obviously not enough focus on ma'at. But that lack of belief doesn’t mean you can’t still follow ma'at or live in it. It just means it looks different from others.

Absolutely good points.

I think that people in Kemeticism, in general, tend to forget the guiding /theory/ of their faith.

It’s important for all of us to make Ma’at a center of our practice. It is THE center of the narrative of humanity and the gods- to fight isfet and the a/p/o/p, and to create/uphold Ma’at. Of course working with deities is still a valid part of anyone’s faith or practice, but it is critical to understand the centrality of Ma’at in Kemeticism. And you can uphold Ma’at with or without explicit paganism.

Fwiw, a better word to identify yourself is probably agnostic, which is characterized by being unsure one way or another whether gods exist. Atheism is the denial that gods can or do exist. (And yes, self-professed “atheists” often use these terms interchangeably by mistake). (Think of it as the difference between “I’m not sure” versus “I am SURE there is no god/s”).

I say this with the utmost respect because I 100% believe that you can be Kemetic without necessarily devoting yourself to any gods or believing in them, and that one must be true to themselves in their religious practice, but I do have .02.

I feel like you’re essentially logic-ing yourself into an unnecessary dilemma. If giving offerings and religion fulfill you and help you, I think that’s the most important thing. Humans can’t and don’t know everything yet.

I say this because atheists often go on about science while simultaneously acting like the sum of human knowledge has reached its peak in 2018 and we will never re-examine this knowledge or even be wrong. Which if you’ve ever studied the history of science is completely farcical on its face.

Yes, you can’t 100% prove that the Netjeru exist. But I posit that nobody needs to.

Hey, so, I meant to reply earlier, but life happened.  

To be more technical, I’d say I’m an agnostic atheist (and most atheists, if they’re being honest, are).  Which is to say, I don’t know whether Gods exist (agnostic), but don’t currently believe in them (atheist).  I would have previously described myself as an agnostic polytheist, i.e. I don’t know whether the Gods exist, but I believed in them.  So, (a)gnosticism is a knowledge claim, and (a)theism is a belief claim.  And it’s my belief about the Gods that has changed, not my knowledge.

There are also gnostic atheist (I know that Gods don’t exist and also don’t believe in them) and antitheists (I think all religion should be dismantled).  I feel like these are the kinds of atheists that tend to be loud on the internet, and make memes to mock Christians, &c.  Plus alot of atheists go through an angry atheist phase as they get out of religion, even if they calm down and take up a more reasonable position later.  This sort of thing has always made me wary of atheists on the internet, so I totally get why other people are going to be wary of self-proclaimed atheists, too.  I guess just calling myself an agnostic would be easier, but it wouldn’t be, in my opinion, as honest.

I have to say, I’ve been pleasantly surprised at how much support I’ve gotten, when I was half expecting ridicule instead.  Which is nice, considering I’m still practising Kemeticism, and living in ma’at to the best of my ability, current non-belief not withstanding, and I’d be sad to not have this bit of community.

Fellow Kemetics of tumblr…

Would you mind giving me some of your deity associations? I’m working on some mood boards, but I am really getting stuck on the most obvious associations. I’m currently working on boards for Djehuty, Ma'at and Seshat but I am more than happy to work on other deities if you’re willing to point me in the right direction association-wise.

TL; DR

I’m working on moodboards for deities and getting stuck on the most obvious associations, so I want some of yours please.

So I’ve gotten some suggestions for Djehuty and Ma'at, as well as Ptah, Bast and Wepwawet.

Any others?

Reblogging for the evening crowd.

Aset (specifically the Weret-Hekau aspect of Aset): Crowns, jewelry (gold heavily preferred), cobras, scorpions, black kites (the bird, not the little flying square of fabric), fire, the sun, roses (white or red), perfect winged eyeliner, dark lipstick, white wine, black tea, the colors blue (royal blue), red, gold, and white.

Djehuty: Books, writing (quill pens, fountain pens, scrolls, old paper, calligraphy, etc.), cappuccinos, hot tea, the moon, board games (senet, scrabble, and chess especially, but also games like checkers and backgammon), crossword puzzles, the colors purple, light blue, silver, and white.

Yinepu: Funerals, graveyards, tombs, bones, skeleton keys, puzzle boxes, dice, leather, smoke, dark beer (think Guinness), dark bread (rye bread, f’ex), beef jerky, black coffee, jackals, sighthounds (like greyhounds), the colors black, dark green, navy blue, and gold.

Hethert: Cows, freshly-baked sweets (especially cinnamon rolls and pies), the sun, dancing, walking barefoot in tall grass, “Walking on Sunshine,” “Dancing Queen,” daisies, carnations, lotuses, tea (hot or iced), the colors pink, red, gold, blue, purple, green, and white

Hethert-Mut: Cows, lionesses, crowns, jewelry, the sun, bread dough (especially the process of kneading it), cooking, yellow flowers (especially yellow roses, marigolds, and daffodils), the colors red, orange, gold, and white.

Seshat- calligraphy tools like fancy pens and ink bottles, drafting tools, maths, architectural plans, libraries, books, pages with writing on them, typewriters or stenography equipment, abacuses, old manuscripts, dogs but specifically hounds

There’s a bunch of overlap with Djehuty, I’m sure, because they shared a lot of the same ‘job’ if you will, but I hope that helps.

Even Stargate knew Budge was a bad source.

Just had a wild idea

It’s been like 3000 years since I last mentioned knot magic using crochet, knitting and other “grandma” hobbies. First off, I still think they’re excellent ideas because color associations and a huge ability for freeform creations for long standing spells, but also what about just using energy? Knitting needles and crochet hooks can be made from all kinds of materials (however you’ll mostly find wooden ones to be the most accessible for witchcraft) and you might look a little silly but weaving/knitting/crocheting/embroidering with only energy would probably be a great way to focus or visualise magic and spells and energy. 

Like, need wards? Why not make an energy blanket? Or, you know, do the thing with yarn or embroidery floss? Like, embroidering your curtains with wards and protective sigils sounds good to me, hell, you could probably crochet curtains with thread yarn if you were enough of a masochist. Or regular yarn, but those would be like, really heavy and thick, might be better to knit them if you were gonna do that.

Oh, that makes me want to crochet a blanket for good dreams. Socks for safe travels or something, guardian amigurumi, possibilities are really endless.

I’ve been poking at the idea of cross stitching some bind runes or sigils, one could pin it inside a jacket or bag? 

Kind of disgusted with this “godspouse” thing… Why… People can’t even take sacred things seriously anymore…

I think you should consider looking into it before before writing off the whole concept. The individuals do not make the sum of the thing.

I don’t like the concept. At all. I can’t find anything on it more than a couple years old. I can’t find at literature or formal writings on it. It seems very informal and illegitimate.

Then take a look at mythology. I don’t have the Greek sources but I’ve reblogged links to where it shows up in Egyptian mythology. And then there’s the concept of Bhakti.

intaier

would have more on that.Oh and there is a similar concept in Voodoo but I can’t remember what it’s called.

theemperorsfeather here on Tumblr has a list of links about deity/spirit marriages, including (starting about halfway down) some links regarding such from the 19th, 18th and even back to the 14th centuries: http://theemperorsfeather.tumblr.com/spiritmarriage

The term in vodou is “maryaj lwa.” That IS pretty formal and structured but then vodou has a tradition that goes back longer than modern pagan/neopagan/reconstructionist/whatever faiths.

But a lot of it IS very informal - or appears to be - because most of us writing about it under that term (”godspouse”) have no structured religion to help us out with it. We don’t have convents or monasteries or much in the way of a religious tradition, period, that goes back more than I dunno, how old are pagan reconstructionist religions in the US? 100 years tops? Not very old. And within those faiths there’s little open acceptance of people having sexual or romantic experiences with spirits/deities despite there being lore in multiple traditions that specific mentions people and god getting it on and/or marrying. Add in Western cultures having sex hangups, and hangups about mysticism generally and here we are! Isn’t it fun.

Also, if what you see of it is mostly on Tumblr - well, Tumblr also tends towards a very informal writing style for the most part.

At any rate, it is a personal relationship between the human and the god, and it isn’t really up to any outsider to decide whether some other person’s personal relationships are “formal enough” or “serious enough” to be “legitimate” or respectful to that specific god within that specific relationship. If a group tradition says “if you do that, we consider it disrespectful,” fine, that’s up to the group religion to agree on those things, but I for one am not part of your group religion (or, really, anyone else’s) - your standards do not apply to me.

There is nothing more serious and respectful than taking seriously a deity’s request to interact with Them as They wish you to, and confronting how that can utterly change your life.

If you’re looking for further writing/research, doing searches for “spirit marriage” or “bridal mysticism” (and like, looking through academic writing about literature, esp. analysis of historically known mystics, or anthropology maybe) may be more helpful than “godspouse,” which is a pretty new term.

Godspousing specifically isn’t my thing at all, but it’s a completely legitimate (and absolutely serious) deity/human relationship. I have different ways of interacting with my gods which are no more or less valid and meaningful and true and complete than others.

I wanted to say something about lack of formality in the language and writing style, though. Just because people speak of something in casual and lighthearted language doesn’t mean they don’t take the subject seriously or have an understanding of the subject (and this is especially common in informal mediums like Tumblr). In fact, sometimes we find ourselves needing to talk about something tremendous and deep and important and we simply do not have the language for it, and so it’s because the subject is so serious that we blather and joke and draw silly comparisons and coin amusing terms. I say this as the person responsible for the phrase “deerpocalypse 2015” to describe a massive and important phenomenon that we simply did not have a word for, and when faced with something that much bigger than myself, I resort to frivolous language.

And godspousing does go much farther back, albeit with different terms and under different paradigms in various cultures and eras.

Bolding for emphasis - totally. It’s a coping mechanism sometimes; I’ve done that even before polytheism, to cope with serious shit in my life. And sometimes, frivolity and etc. is because I’m happy and joyful about what’s going on, and gosh I’m sorry I don’t express that in the right formal serious acceptable ways. (I’m not sorry.)

Reblogging in order to repeat this for emphasis.

Without even touching the godspouse thing: I’ve had conversations with people — in real life, even, I know almost no one IRL to be talking to about things like this but I was at a small meditation workshop a few weeks ago talking to a very nice witch and this happened — who are shocked, /shocked/ at the idea of claiming ANY personal devotional relationship with a deity. Because, really, who the hell do you think you are, what appalling, delusional pride you must have to imagine that They would ever notice you or communicate or interact in any way with you, what makes you so special.

And I get it. Monotheism hangover issues, the mandatory self-deprecation culture of women in particular, let’s not forget emotional defenses against the appalling possibility of succumbing to hope, and against jealousy, and, oh, all sorts of hells. Trust me, I get it. 

But I think that it’s a fundamental if highly understandable misconstrual of humility. It takes quite a lot of arrogance and pride, when you think about it, to refuse to engage with the reality of the universe that actually presents itself to you on the grounds that to do so would be gauche. And that’s what this whole line of objection amounts to. It feels gauche. Not done. Not what nice, right-thinking, thoughtful, well socialized and educated people do. Vulgar. Against the unspoken rules of gracious behavior. Better to nope out on the entire possibility and simply refuse to contemplate such a thing than to even /consider/ behaving in this presumptuous and appalling manner, compromising one’s image of oneself as sensible etc, associating oneself with people of whom one does not approve, and so on. This feels like humility, it’s socially parsed as humility, but it’s literally the 180-degree opposite. It puts correct social posturing and high-functional culturally dictated hoop-jumping ahead of the devotional relationship. It decenters the deity and centers self-image. 

And the whole argument over godspouses is just the same exact argument, writ at its largest. Why draw the line there in particular? Because it’s too preposterous? So is everything else about all this. Why isn’t it too preposterous to even entertain the idea of deities or incorporeal beings existing? Why choke just here? Where’s the disgust coming from? I mean, seriously ask yourself this. But pour a drink or your preferred equivalent first because you may find that your answers take you into uncomfortable learning territory. Ask me how I know. I am as susceptible to the potent mix of cultural and psychological stealth toxins that drive this thinking as anyone else, maybe more so than average.  I’m still in the process of actively working through a lot of it. But I can at least see it the right way up now and perceive the absurdities and pathologies.

You have the nail on the head here I think, lokiwtf. 

Godspousery is inherently a challenge and a strike against the beliefs that our culture indoctrinates us with in respect to religion and the divine, acceptable behaviour, and “consensus reality”. Because it, of necessity, treats Deities or spirits as fully real, fully individual, fully able to interact with and form emotional bonds with humans. This just goes right against prevailing attitudes of what the divine looks like and what a human’s relationship with that can look like, and perhaps most potently, what reality and sanity looks like. What’s pretense. 

I mean it’s the logical conclusion to understanding that we share a many-layered world with spirits of various forms, which are individual and actual people. But it can push people’s noses right into it in a way that talking in abstracts and keeping things relatively impersonal doesn’t. It forces you to take a good hard look at just what it is you believe and how out of line with the consensus reality of the man in the street those beliefs are.

It’s a lot less scary to think, what if it’s made up? than to consider what if it’s real?

Reblogging again b/c I really like a lot of these replies, especially lokiwtf’s and grimnirs-child’s.

Everyone needs to read all of this right now. EVERYONE.

Granted, I’m not Black, and Black-Kemetic Tumblr may have a different answer.  I am Kemetic, however, and as I don’t see any other Kemetics having responded, I hope I’m not out-of-line in responding.

But all my research indicates the Kemeticism is an open religion, given that it was open when it was practiced, and that it died out completely with Egypt’s conversion to Christianity in, I want to say, the third century AD. So that, to me, says that symbols like the ankh are open, too.  

It’s also worth noting that while ancient Egyptians were African (Egypt being in northern Africa), historical evidence suggests that they were genetically similar to modern Egyptians, and I don’t think modern Egyptians consider themselves Black?  Which to me says that Black people don’t have an exclusive right to say whether Kemetic symbols are open or not (not that there can’t be Black Kemetic organisations or sects that chose to exclude non-Black people, but that the religion as a whole is not exclusive to any particular race).

That being said, there is a Afrocentric Black-power movement that draws inspiration from ancient Egypt and is also called Kemeticism (or Kemetism).  That is a thing for Black people, and I, as a white person, stay well away from it.  It’s not a thing made for me, and I don’t belong there.  I think of the Black-power movement as different from Kemeticism as a religion, but people who are part of said movement may well not, and see other forms of Kemeticism (e.g. my religios practices) outside of their movement as appropriation by non-Blacks.  If that is the case, these people may also view use of Kemetic symbols like the ankh by non-Blacks as appropriation.  

Now, I don’t know if this is the case, because, as I said above, I mostly stay away from Afrocentric Kemeticism, but I have heard anecdotes of non-Black Kemetics being told they have the wrong skin colour to practice the religion.  At that point, I think it becomes up to the individual to decide which side of Kemeticism is right as to whether use of ancient Egyptian symbols by non-Blacks is appropriation.  Obviously, I, personally, have decided that use of ancient Egyptian imagery and symbols by non-Black people is not appropriation, but others will disagree with me.

Anyway, I really hope I’m not stepping on anyone’s toes with this response.  I really hope you also get PoC/Black Kemetic responses because as an outsider to Black experiences, I know my understanding is not going to be as nuanced compared to someone for whom this is lived experience, and I’m pretty worried I’ve gone and said something unintentionally racist because sometimes my biases sneak up on me despite my best effort to combat them.

making of egyptian lovers