Director Ishihara ✕ Chief Director Ogawa Discussion (re: Sound! Euphonium ~ Ensemble Contest)
My translation of the discussion featured here on the official Eupho site. Figured it might be worthwhile since I suspect Ogawa's gonna be a major figure at KyoAni in the coming decade. Caveat lector though.
A Prologue to the Kumiko 3rd Year Arc
─Special Edition: Sound! Euphonium ~ Ensemble Contest (Ensemble) is the first entry in four years for the Sound! Euphonium (Eupho) series, and production is currently underway. How’s it going?
Ishihara: Coming back to Eupho again…hoo boy, it’s a handful! (Laughs)
Ogawa: (Laughs) The animation for the instruments and stuff can give us trouble here and there, but in my opinion, this is the sort of anime where the real problem is figuring out how to portray the drama. First of all, Ensemble was originally planned to be an OVA, and also Ensemble is tied to the Kumiko 3rd year arc (scheduled to air in 2024), so I’ve been thinking about how that’s gonna work.
─So at first it was planned to be an OVA?
Ishihara: The Kumiko 3rd year arc in 2024 is still pretty far away, and we know we’re keeping the fans waiting, so we got to talking and felt that we should have something in the mean time. To that end, there was a story in the novels from the back half of 2nd year that we didn’t portray in Sound! Euphonium the Movie ~ The Promised Finale (Chikai no Finale) about Kumiko’s first efforts as club president with the ensemble contest. We decided it’d be a good idea to put it out as a standalone episode. In terms of composition, we made it like an extension of the TV series. However some time later, it had turned into something we could show as a film, so we made it with the big screen in mind. Truth be told, the drawing count really got away from us. (Laughs) It might not look quite as flashy as a movie, but I think you can look forward to it with tempered expectations: it's a depiction of unspectacular everyday life.
─You talked a bit about it being tied to Kumiko’s 3rd year arc. How exactly does Ensemble fit in with the series?
Ogawa: I think one of the biggest points is that it serves as a prologue to Kumiko being club president. The first season closely depicts the activities of the wind ensemble club, and the second season focused on the human relationships. When I think about what’s interesting in the Kumiko 3rd year arc, the biggest thing has gotta be how Kumiko’s future is shaping up now that she’s a club president. Ensemble is connected to the 3rd year arc, so this fits in as a prologue to her being president.
The balance of realism and entertainment
─What’s been at the front of your mind while making Ensemble?
Ogawa: This applies to the whole of Sound! Euphonium, not just Ensemble, but when it comes to the wind ensemble itself, to my mind, the keyword is “lifelike,” or “realistic.” “Like you're really there.” We’ve been very much focused on balancing this goal with making it entertaining as anime.
Ishihara: Absolutely, that’s exactly what we were thinking when we were making Eupho and pursuing that sense of verisimilitude in animation. Drawing the instruments as realistically as we could and all…
Ogawa: That said, sometimes you'll have a scene that just screams "hey, make me a highlight!" and you can end up over-directing it, so it’s pretty hard.
Ishihara: Yep, that’s it, that’s the experience. Just because you have flashy scenes doesn’t mean you’re telling your story, and in fact you can often tell a story by resolving the characters’ emotions without having any flashy scenes at all.
Ogawa: On the other hand, I do think it’s better to do something anyway and regret it than not to do it at all, even if it ends up over-directed and loses that sense of realism, because there really are a lot of cases where it turns out better as a result…I’m constantly struggling with that feeling.
Ishihara: Also, and this doesn’t have anything to do with directing, but there are some seniors who show up who’ve moved on from the band, which I think people will like.
─It’s been about four years since the last Eupho visual project. What does the staff look like?
Ogawa: There are a lot of people who watched Eupho as students and told me they joined Kyoto Animation because they liked it so much. Their desire to do something great really comes across.
Ishihara: Part of me wondered what’ll happen now that there’s so much new staff who hasn’t worked on Eupho before, but they draw Eupho the same as always, and with utmost care. It makes me so glad. It’s been a long time since we’ve drawn instruments, but the movement in the marimba cuts is so good to the point where it looks nearly like it was rotoscoped. Nope! It was all animated solely from the reference footage.
Ogawa: Man, the staff is working so hard. It used to be that even when we used 3DCG, we needed to retouch it to give it texture. That caused us all kinds of trouble. Since then, the 3D and compositing staff have improved even more and come up with all kinds of tools. As the series has incremented, we’ve all really come to appreciate the advantages of both 2D and 3D animation. We’d like to improve ourselves even more with the Kumiko 3rd year arc.
Eupho: Past and Present
─You mentioned instruments. Regarding the music, I hear the piece you planned on using, “Omens of Love,” is the subject of some discussion.
Ogawa: There’s a passage in Ensemble that features “Omens of Love.” I was in charge of the boards for half of Ensemble, and at first there weren’t plans to use any musical compositions. However, when it became a theatrical project, we decided to utilize a piece since there was a passage that we wanted to really make an impression. When we asked around our staff involved with the wind ensemble what sort of piece they thought would be good, there were a lot of people who answered “Omens of Love.” It was a song I’d heard of through a few places too, and I think it really fits. The more I listened to it, the more I liked it, the more I got jazzed about the idea. (Laughs)
─How did recording with the wind ensemble go?
Ishihara: The performers are mostly all different from the first season, but it’s still the same ol’ Eupho. Ogawa-kun, you hadn’t participated in the recording before. What did you think?
Ogawa: It really got to me. I’d been invited to regular concerts, so I’ve heard live performances before, and those were plenty moving too of course, but this time I was listening to them closer up, and it just felt more imminent somehow…the sense of presence was just amazing. So many people were gathered for the purpose of making just one cartoon, and yet a lot of people came to tell me how much they liked Eupho. We were recording a short version of Omens of Love, and yet I was very impressed with how Ouwada-sensei and everyone else from the orchestra came up with all these forward-looking proposals for the trimming process, taking on the role of creators in their own right.
─It sounds like real teamwork
Ogawa: I came to truly understand how broad the domain is about which I know nothing. I learned a lot at the recordings, but there’s no way that could possibly cover everything, so it really did have the sense that this was something everyone was making together. What about you, Ishihara? You’ve been to these recordings so often…
Ishihara: It’s really interesting to hear a performance up close. I love places where people are making stuff, like workshops, and, of course, my own workplace included. The audio recording studio has the feel of a “maker space” too, so it just feels really comfy.
Ogawa: There are some things that you can just feel how good they are in your bones. There are some takes where you know it’s good the moment you hear it, and everyone else feels the same way. That’s not specialist knowledge; that’s just what’s so interesting about music: it really is a common tongue.
─There are some new cast members, and some who haven’t dubbed Eupho in many years. Was there anything remarkable about the dubbing process?
Ishihara: We talked some about realism and entertainment at the start, and my own directorial sensibilities have changed since the first TV season as well. Around the time of the first season, Eupho had a lot of instances of anime-like comical modes of expression, but those have gradually faded. I think the cast’s delivery has transitioned from something more anime-like to something closer to realism.
Ogawa: I feel that there were a lot of times when the sound director, (Youta) Tsuruoka, was putting a ton of passion into his directing. During the dubbing process, Tsuruoka was like “do it like you just want to start it all over again. Do it with the feeling that you want to tear down everything you’ve done up to now.” I got the sense that Tsuruoka had a very clear idea of what he wanted. I interpreted it as him proceeding under the premise that even if you break from what came before it won’t truly be a break, and that he’d see what feelings each cast members would take with them as they took their fresh start. People were saying things like “if you’re not growing, you’re doing it wrong,” and just as the cast took that attitude and grew a bit, so too did their characters – at least that’s how it felt to me.
The vision behind Kumiko Oumae’s depiction
Ogawa: There was one other thing that really left an impression on me from the dubbing, and that’s regarding Kumiko. Up until now the structure has been that other characters would be having problems and Kumiko would be looking on, but looking towards the 3rd year arc, it’s more about Kumiko herself. Tsuruoka talked with (Tomoyo) Kurosawa – Kumiko’s voice actress – about the nuances of “how to finally express the story of Kumiko Oumae.” They also discussed how to “leverage everything they had up to now,” and I thought “ahh, I see now.” It’s not a “connecting” but rather a “leveraging” process that will drive our progress towards something new, or something like that. It’s something I thought about in productions meetings and stuff regarding how to tell Kumiko Oumae’s story. As production progresses, there are times when that theme becomes so obvious that it actually becomes invisible. I came to be painfully aware of that while listening to Tsuruoka’s direction, feeling quite thankful for it, and at the same time feeling the pressure knowing that nothing will escape Tsuruoka’s eye. (Laughs)
─Do you have a message for the fans?
Ogawa: There will be new compositions in this one, so those are the places to watch and listen carefully. The power of theatrical audio equipment for listening to music is unmistakable, so I hope you all like it. I’m looking forward to it too! If you’d all walk on down to the theaters, I’d be much obliged.
Ishihara: I think we're taking a new start headed towards the Kumiko third year arc. As with everything else in life, it’s a lot fun declare “it all starts here!” and take that first step straight forward. I think that feeling is what this work is all about. You’ll be getting a glimpse of the Kumiko of the future. I hope you all enjoy it.
