Alright come on now, enough of these Janeway v. X MILF contests.

We all know Janeway's only true competition is herself.

OHHHH A DOWNTON ABBEY QUESTION

Okay okay so i need to acknowledge how feral I am about these two. Also i sorta checked out after the show shoved Mary and skinny chad number 7ish down the aisle (Is his name Henry or something??? the race car driver whatever, fuck him 😆)

(I still dont understand how they expect me to believe that the love of her life dies in a devastating car accident but she would willingly re-marry a race car driver. brain does not compute)

I digress. I think Tom and she develope this insanely deep emotional bond in that first year without their spouses as a result of their shared grief. They each married for love at a time when few others of their social group would have had the chance to do so (Tom is extra isolated on account of he isnt yet accepted into that social group). I think they really heavily depend on eachother in the beginning. someone else who just gets that grief. and also was close to the spouse who died so it's two sides of a coin. they gravitate towards the one other person they feel fully understands them and they help the other A. remember the love who died and B (more in Mary's case) remember what kind of person that love inspired them to be.

And i headcanon that by the time they might be ready for romance again theyve fallen into this inexplicable deep emotional entanglement with the other. it would be incredibly hard to find something more fulfilling. at the same time, transforming that connection into romance would probably be terrifying (would the other want that? would it be a betrayal of Matthew and Sybil to move on together) oodles of grief there.

I think Tom actually goes to Boston at all because he realizes whats happening and it scares him. on the one hand he thinks it isnt fair to mary to hold her back from a romance. on the other hes not quite sure if he could ever move on from Sybil. (And of course be comes back because he cant bear to be away from Mary and figures he can find a way to control the attraction. maybe by committing himself to helping her find new love.)

Which is about where what I headcanon and what the show does diverge. I cant wrap by head around her marrying skinny man number 7. i just cant. Husband material is right there at the breakfast table with her. Why would she go for Henry when she already has Tom?

I also think theyre good for eachother okay! they encourage and empower eachother. She helps him navigate the code switching he needs to do to be a part of the peerage. he helps her find her way out of the constricting box the peerage has always pressured her to conform to. Him being estate agent opens the door for her to take control over it. theirs is a partnership. running the whole thing together. beause he respects her opinion and welcomes her to the table as an equal, it effectively gives her the control over her home shes always felt like she cant have due to her sex.

So in my headcanon she either dumps skinny man or has an unhappy marriage to skinny man that prompts Tom and she to have a conversation about what they really want. And then they would get together And i could frankly read stories about them getting together foreverrr.

I actually think there's sooo so much of what they understand about their feelings for eachother that we never see on screen. Theres some really lovely moments in the novels in that vein (Read Isabo's Shirt. no really. youll enjoy it 😘)

But setting Beta canon *aside* and working under the assumption that they do not ever talk about feelings during the shows run

I can believe that piece easily. Until Hunters she considers herself engaged to Mark. thats an easy way to justify getting emotionally close to her first officer (for the support and companionship they both need) but never going further with it or discussing it.

And after Hunters is there ever a good moment? for the rest of the series, Chakotay is coping with the trauma of knowing all the maquis in the alpha quadrant were massacred. Something that we see BElanna struggle with but we never see Chakotay's side. We never even see Janeway learn about it.

Theres a metric fuck ton of other trauma these two go through during the show run - the Hirogen enslave and torture the crew for a whole month. Janeway grapples with depression or ptsd or whatever you interpret Night as being. Being assimilated. Memorial. That encounter with the Dauntless. oh and then of course Timeless...

Timeless seems to acknowledge their feelings but subtextually. there still is a lot left unsaid. even if I headcanon that they did have "dessert" in that episode, I think it would have been just a sexual release of the tension between them. Theres being aware that you have mutual feelings. theres acting on them... and then there is actually talking about it. And I suspect that they are both extremely aware of them and think it is only going to make it harder if they talk about it (however right or wrong they are about it).

Regardless, Timeless ending the way it does is another opportunity to spook them both back to opposite corners: not only do they not make it home but Janeway becomes painfully aware of what could have happened in that alternate future. so lets load that onto her heaping high pile of things she feels massive guilt about. Thats not a person who is going to feel free to open up about their feelings. whether it be viewed by her as something she doesnt deserve (for stranding the crew) or something that will be an added burden on Chakotay (to be her partner and her subordinate? perpetually? thats HARD) or on her (potentially needing to be responsible for his death if it happened due to her order? Thats also hard!).

My own timeless theory is that she comes to see these feeling she holds for him as toxic to their goal. she wanted to be back home and able to embrace a chance with him badly enough to overlook the clear risks of the slipstream flight. thats got to weigh heavy on her. This crews lives are in her hands and hers alone. she has to put them first. (And he KNOWS that deeply. establishing a longstanding situation where they both know about theyre feelings. theyre free to act on them and possibly have in the past. but neither feels able to begin talking about them)

The long and short of it is i can easily see them never discussing their feelings during the shows run. acting on and acknowledging them sure, but talking about them, nope. no talking here. (that also would explain his dating Seven in the final season. being in limbo with someone emotionally for that long is unsustainable)

But your question was whether they ever talk about it ever.

I think they definitely do. but it would be a huge thing to approach. theyve hurt eachother. theyve been wounded by the long mission. they are gonna have massive things to adjust to when they get home. (Ex fiance has a preschooler and wants to be friends. all the maquis are dead. family and friends have grown and changed. A whole devastating war happened without them there. Basically I think theres ALOT of more important things theyre gonna need to figure out after Voyager. And they'd do what theyve done for 7 years and lean on eachother. I think they might just wind up in a situation where they only talk about their feelings after theyve all but moved in together.

(God if two characters ever needed couples therapy without technically being a couple it would be these two. Starfleets counselors probably have a field day with everything the Voyager folks are dealing with)

From the Trek Asks

Thank you omg goodness there are so many...

There are a lot of episodes where I get grumpy about one specific plot point (Hi Threshold did we really have to abandon helpless babies. seems sus) but I want to focus on One episode where theres a really central plot issue that I really struggle to reconcile.

TNGs Perfect Mate is on top of the list. Caveat that I have only watched this one once and it skeeved me out so much I tried to never encounter it again. But as I remember it, the new alien of the week, the Kriosian, Kamala, whose whole personality changes to suit the desires of whomever she mates with was really poorly handled. While shes on the ship she is portrayed flirting with Riker and Picard and shown to be arousing other men aboard. theres a lot of cringeworthy sexiet behavior towards her by officers and civilians you'd think would be more respectful in the 24th century. you also never really know is this her true personality or the one shes adopting for this specific person (the episode seems to indicate by saying she has heightened pheremones and needs to complete an imprint in the very near future that she is in a state that is not her normal state of mind) this is all played for laughs and discomfort and sexual allure without strongly addressing the fundamental concerns about her consent and agency that are thrown into question by this alien sex-mechanic. in select scenes Beverly Crusher is allowed to be a loud voice of reason echoing the audience's (or at least my) concerns. But shes largely on the sidelines, not allowed to take any action within the episode. Even the final conversation of the episode is between Picard and the Kriosian ambassador, and doesnt acknowledge at all the sacrifice Kamala has made for a peace treaty, instead only on the two men's sexual attraction to her (Yuck).

Suffice to say I would have really preferred Beverly to be the protagonist in this episode. Using her medical knowledge to help us understand the Kriosian metamorph ability better, address Kamala's safety during her stay and her ability to consent, and challenge Krios treatment of her. Even if it still ended the same way i think it would have been a much more interesting and palatable episode.

Netflix, sweetheart. good job. you got 5 new shows... except none of them are what I paid you for. When are u gonna get Prodigy on here? 😆😆😆