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The Apocrypals

@apocrypals

Welcome to Apocrypals, the podcast where two non-believers read through the Bible, but aren't, you know, jerks about it. Join comic book writers Benito Cereno and Chris Sims as they embark on a complete, non-sequential journey from Acts to Zephaniah, with stops in the Apocrypha along the way. A love offering will be collected: ko-fi.com/apocrypals
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Further to that ask about Bibleman... any chance of a review of the Christian Archie comics?

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I’ve brought that one up to Chris before, but he hasn’t shown much interest. We’ll see!

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orcboxer

flipping the tables at the temple is a crucial part of the run, but obviously every npc in the area will aggro on you as soon as you do it, which is a problem because the crucifixion exploit only works on a pacifist run. that's why we picked up those cords from the leatherworker earlier in the chapter. we can craft those into a whip and drive out the merchants, as long as we don't accidentally kill one of them. this is the only weapon in the game that doesn't proc the "violence" effect due to an oversight in the code, so this will essentially allow us to complete the tableflip glitch without breaking our pacifist run. once every table is flipped, the physics engine won't know how to handle it and some key values will be altered that will later allow us to clip through golgotha directly into hell-

woke up this morning with the mental image of jesus' last words on the cross being "speedrun strats" and the thought wouldn't leave me alone until I wrote this

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cryptotheism

According to 1 Enoch 8, the fallen angel Azazel is responsible for teaching humanity about eyeliner.

Enoch is not canon to Judaism nor Christianity, EXCEPT for Ethiopian Orthodox. Another W for Ethiopia.

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rubiscodisco

I listened to an @apocrypals episode about this and talked to a friend

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What are the odds of an Apocrypals episode on Bibleman?

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Not impossible, but neither of us grew up with Bibleman (I was already in high school when it first came out), so there’s not the nostalgic urgency of, say, the Wisdom Tree games

Now, an episode on Marvel Comics’ Illuminator? That’s a strong maybe

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cryptotheism

According to 1 Enoch 8, the fallen angel Azazel is responsible for teaching humanity about eyeliner.

Enoch is not canon to Judaism nor Christianity, EXCEPT for Ethiopian Orthodox. Another W for Ethiopia.

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heretekadept

@apocrypals' exploration of the distinction between "officially canon" and "hugely important to popular religious practice", particularly as involves the Books of Enoch, is very worth a listen:

https://apocrypals.libsyn.com/39-rain-is-boy-water-the-book-of-enoch-part-one

https://apocrypals.libsyn.com/40-devil-got-a-hog-the-book-of-enoch-part-two

https://apocrypals.libsyn.com/60-countless-large-gregs-the-second-book-of-enoch

https://apocrypals.libsyn.com/87-god-junior-the-third-book-of-enoch-part-1

https://apocrypals.libsyn.com/87-crisis-on-18000-earths-the-third-book-of-enoch-part-2

TLDR; if you ask a Christian what heaven looks like, how anything there works politically/bureaucratically, or for millennia what the physical locations of Earth, the Sun, the stars, and Heaven are and how they interoperate physically rather than spiritually, you're quite likely to get a "non-canon" answer traceable back to Enoch.

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Ever see a depiction of St. George and the Dragon? It's pretty fair to say if you've seen one, you've seen them all: Georgie on a horse stabbing a flailing dragon creature, princess piously kneeling in the background, vague landscape alluding to the homeland of the artist's patron.

The most varied part is the dragons. No one had a real definition for the thing, it seemed. For your pleasure and entertainment, I have ranked some medieval depictions based on how impressive George's feat seems once you see the dragon.

Paolo Uccello, 1456

This is a terrifying beast. The hell is that. Uccello was one of the first experimenters with perspective, so the thing also looks surreal, like it's taking place on Mars, or a Windows 95 screensaver. I would not want to fight that, I would not want to be tied to that. (Sometimes the princess is tied to the dragon for some reason.) 10/10

Horse thoughts: Maybe if I look at the ground it will be gone when I look up

Unknown artist, c. 1505

This is a rare change of form for the dragon; it's the only one I've seen actually flying (or at least falling with style). It doesn't look particularly deterred by the spear through its throat, either. Also, George looks appropriately nervous. On the other hand, it hasn't got teeth, it seems to be fuzzy rather than having scaly armor, and George is bolstered by his army of Henry VII and his children, most of whom definitely didn't actually die in infancy. Still, wouldn't want to fight it, wouldn't want my pet sheep near it. (Sometimes the princess has a pet sheep for some reason.) 9/10

Horse thoughts: I am so glad I wore my mightiest feather helmet for this

Raphael, 1505

We are coming to Dragons With Problems. This guy looks about comparable in size to George, and does have wings, but doesn't seem to be using these things to his advantage (and has he only got one wing?) And how does he deal with the neck? He does have a comically small head, but holding it up with such a twisty neck seems complicated at best. But most egregiously, he is doing the shitty superheroine pose where he is somehow simultaneously showcasing his chest and his butt, with its unnecessarily defined butthole (more on this later) (regrettably). 8/10 bc it's Raphael

Horse thoughts: AM I THE BESTEST BOI? AM I DOING SUCH A GOOD JOB? WE R DRAGON SLAYING BUDDIEZ

The Beauchamp Hours, c. 1401

We had a spirited debate about this one at work. Again, the dragon has gotten smaller, and this one hasn't got even one wing. He's basically a crocodile. So the debate became: would you want to fight a crocodile if you had a horse and a pointy stick? Would the horse trample the animal, who can't get on its hind legs, or freak out and throw its rider? Would the pointy stick be enough to pierce the croc's thick hide? In this case, George seems to be controlling his horse and putting his pointy stick in the dragon's weak spot, so we can be impressed by his skill and strategy. However, his hat is dumb. 7/10

Horse thoughts: Dehhhh

Book of Hours, c. 1480

Here we have the same kind of croco-dragon, but George's focus on his strategy has gone out the window. He's flailing around, not even looking at his target, he's about to lose his pointy stick, he hasn't got a hand on the reins, and his sword seems to only be poking the invisible dragon over his shoulder. All he's got going for him is that his hat is slightly less dumb. 6/10

Horse thoughts: Yay, new friend! Come play with me, new fr- what is happening

Final dragons put behind this Read More for your safety:

I wish I could say I cherry-picked these, but really the image of the dragon as a sky-blotting behemoth seems to be a quite recent one. They started to get bigger and more menacing around the 16th century, but really you'd be hard-pressed to find a dragon bigger than the horse.

Here's an anonymous one from around 1510:

There's a hefty amount of dragon there; I also enjoy his bug eyes, George's impressively stupid hat, and the gnarly bone pile. Also, if you check out the distant figures, this artist seems to be covering his bases by also including the version of the legend where George instead captures the dragon with the princess's girdle, taking it back with him to her kingdom where he uses it as blackmail to get them all to convert to Christianity before he'll kill it. Nice one, George. (This does explain why it sometimes looks like the princess is tied to the dragon.)

OKAY.

I have learned of another dragon-slaying saint, and I am never letting George off the hook again.

The story of St. Margaret of Antioch goes that she was imprisoned for refusing to convert and marry a Roman official; in prison, she was visited by the devil in the form of a dragon. The dragon ate her, but she was holding a cross/made the sign of the cross and the dragon EXPLODED IN HALF and she escaped. (Still got beheaded tho; tough luck.)

And let me tell you. EVERY ONE of Margaret's dragons KICKS ASS:

That took me like five minutes. Big! Wings! Teeth! Fire! Sometimes there's another devil there getting his ass kicked too! And she ain't even trying!

And it nullifies my earlier thesis that they just weren't making big dragons back then. Go back and look at what Raphael had George fight, and then check out what he gave Margaret:

She don't even give a fuck. Why is George the dragon saint. George is FIRED.

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apocrypals

First, here’s our episode on Margaret of Antioch (plus Martha of Bethany, who also fought a dragon):

Now let me add some Saint Georges I have encountered IRL, all photos by me

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