What Happens Next: A Gallimaufry

dear white male writers: DO NOT DO THIS

fozmeadows:
glenington:
fozmeadows:
glenington:
fozmeadows:
lordflintjojo:
fozmeadows:
little-koromon:
fozmeadows:
These horrific, sexist, racist paragraphs - screenshotted and shared for posterity by James Smythe, to whom we are all indebted - are the work of one Liam O’Flynn, a writer and English teacher. Evidently, they come from his book Writing With Stardust: the Ultimate Descriptive Guide for students, parents, teachers, and lovers of English, and are intended as examples of good writing.
UM.
Dear white male writers: DO NOT DO THIS SHIT. IT IS SUPER GROSS AND FETISHISTIC AND ALSO TERRIBLE WRITING. THIS IS WHY WE CAN’T HAVE NICE THINGS.
Like I just. “Her virility-brown eyes -” WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN? How can you have an “Amazonian figure” ON a “wafer-thin body” when “figure” is a word that describe’s a body’s shape, and Amazonian means pretty much the DIRECT FUCKING OPPOSITE of “wafer-thin” in the first place? What the shitting fuck does ANY of this mean, apart from “I am only nebulously familiar with the concept of women and completely at a loss if I can’t compare their various bodyparts to jewels, animals and footstuffs”?
STOP
GO TO WRITING JAIL
GO DIRECTLY TO WRITING JAIL, DO NOT PASS GO, DO NOT COLLECT $200
Did no one else notice the second paragraph is about a dog
It’s not, though? That’s what makes it so terrible. Like, he’s literally describing a “native” with “crescent shaped eyebrows,” “oxbow lips” and a “complexion” with a “saffron tint”, someone who doesn’t have “a saccharine voice or retro clothes” - all of which are qualities that dogs can’t possibly have. If the final reference to Labradors is meant to indicate a joke - that he’s been secretly describing a dog the whole time - then not only is he edging into serious bestiality territory (“candy-sweet lips”) while also evoking some very ugly racism (”native”), but he’s using descriptors that literally can’t and don’t apply to dogs in the first place, not even ambiguously, which makes it a terribly constructed joke.
The final line, which has no contextual attachment to anything before it, reads instead like a metaphor comparing himself and the woman to pups in a pound. Even if that line is meant literally, it implies that the narrator himself is also a dog, which - again - makes no fucking sense, given the earlier descriptors. Plus, he explicitly says that he thinks the “nuzzling” is “a custom of her people”, which… at absolute best, he’s describing a fucking werewolf and just hasn’t bothered to make the supernatural element clear, and at worst, regardless of whether he’s describing a dog or a woman, he’s deliberately evoking bestial comparisons between animals and women of colour in order to make it work.
Either way, it’s a burning trashfire paragraph and I want to go BLEACH MY EYES.
This is bad teenage romance fan fiction level and it can fuck eight off.
Listen, I don’t have time to get into all the ways in which the casual assumption that teenage writing, romance writing and fanfic are inherently bad is Not Cool And Actually Pretty Sexist, so I’m just going to link to the last time I discussed that particular issue in relation to men’s writing and leave it at that, k?
Oh there’s so much here worth hating, and most of it is from the post. Most of the shit being complained about is just trying way too hard to be clever. However. It ain’t racist, it ain’t sexist, the only thing it can really be called is bad writing. But, one of the signs of a piece well written is it encourages the readers to discuss what it is they think the writer is getting at and what they meant by certain phrases or paragraphs. And this, this’s is a flat out discussion of the writer’s work and how different people perceived it. So in a way, this guy did a good job. It ain’t really the writer’s fault you perceived this as sexist or racist (and it seems the only reason you said it was sexist was because the describes a very attractive woman (you mentioned “Amazonian figure on a wafer thin frame”) just a heads up, Amazonian doesn’t mean fat or super muscular, it means powerful and aggressive. Which means it does lend itself to being used in that context, I wouldn’t have chose those words but hey. I didn’t write it. Next let’s look at why you insisted it was racist.
There ain’t much here to be honest. The only reason you said it was racist was because he said “she must be a native” which ain’t even racist. Let’s say I was born and raised in Edinburgh, I’d be an Edinburgh native. If I was born and raised in Norway id be a native Norwegian. If I was black, born and raised in Kingston, Jamaica, I’d be a Jamaican native. Oh and by the way, I’m like 90% sure he’s describing a Labrador. Why? Cause he fucking said so, oh and 3 out of 4 things you said couldn’t possibly describe a dog….can actually describe a dog. It’s just the retro clothes thing that doesn’t fit, but I get it, he was just aiming for one last bait and switch making you think it was a human. Which, apparently, HE FUCKING DID you think it’s a human, I almost completely think differently and once again, he’s got the discussion open. However. It still ain’t racist.
You’ve just looked at this whole thing and went “grrrrrrr he’s describing an attractive female, that makes me mad, this guy is sexist he has an idea of beauty that’s inline with most of society while describing some of the scientific standards of attraction grrrrr”. The only reason you think it was racist is because of one word. Native. And that’s it, that’s your entire reasoning for getting so recreationally outraged at this whole thing. The writing ain’t that bad, it got you thinking about the writers intent, yeah he was very heavy handed on the describing front but that’s because he was giving an example to people who want to write. So he gave them a shitload of ways to describe someone…or something.
You’re only mad because you have self body issues and you want everyone to conform to “be sexually attracted to everyone and every body type so I don’t feel bad”. And the racism thing, man I don’t know, you needed a stress release.
P.s. Oh man teenage writing. First, yes it is “cool” to assume all teenage writing is bad, especially fan fiction. Why? Because most of the time it’s crap. Pure, straight crap. Especially fan fic and romance. Most teenagers don’t have the experience or depth to write something good, especially involving romance. Cause then they’re writing about teenage romance. Which is just this crazy spill of hormones and angst. It doesn’t make for a compelling read. You think people shouldn’t be able to say or think teenage writing is inherently bad, which in and of itself is “Not Cool” because people are allowed to have their opinions especially when it’s based on solid thinking like this is. Just because you don’t like the generally accepted opinion that teenage writing is bad doesn’t mean it’s not tru-OH MY GOD STOP SAYING EVERYTHING IS SEXIST. You’re an idiot if you genuinely think people saying teenage writing is bad is sexist. It’s not. In anyway. It’s about both sexes. Male or female, both are idiots that are fucking crazy at that age (hell I’m still a little bit at 20). Man, ya dumb. Get over yourself, not everything is a war on you.
Reading comprehension really isn’t your strong suit, is it?
It’s not just the word ‘native’ that makes it racist. I’ve listed multiple other factors and explained how they work in confluence to achieve a horrible effect.
It’s not just that he’s describing an ‘attractive’ woman that makes it sexist. It’s that the descriptions, aside from being literally physically impossible, are laden with needlessly objectifying details and stereotypes. I’ve explained that, too.
Writing something so bad that thousands of people are independently reduced to horrified laughter doesn’t mean you’ve succeeded at writing merely because your work is being discussed. Contrary to the assertion of certain media managers, there is such a thing as bad publicity.
Teenage writing isn’t inherently bad. Yes, you get a lot of impassioned crap, but that’s equally true of lots of other people. A teenager who’s been writing for pleasure and aiming to improve their craft since childhood, as many of us once did, is entirely capable of producing better work at sixteen than a first-time writer is at sixty. Age is no guarantee of quality, nor is lack of age a guarantee of failure.
Fanfic and romance are overwhelmingly produced by women. That’s a fact. If your argument is that those genres are both inherently inferior and/or more likely to contain crap work than any other oeuvre, then yes, you are being sexist. The assumed unworthiness of female work is a cultural default rooted in sexism: accepting that default as being obviously true without any examination or awareness of the underlying misogyny doesn’t magically remove the sexism from the argument just because you, personally, didn’t realise what it perpetuates. Note, please, that disliking fanfic and romance as a matter of personal preference isn’t sexist - you’re allowed to have tastes! - but that’s not the same as assuming they’re both inherently lesser genres regardless.
In conclusion:
Actually, it is one of my strong suits. Analytical processing is in general. However it doesn’t appear to be one of yours, because you’re looking at everything through a filter of “BAH EVERYTHING IS RACIST. EVERYTHING IS SEXIST. EVERYTHING, EVERYTHING”
Your entire argument for it being racist was based around that word “native” and the one descriptive item which couldn’t be attributed to a dog. Oh and the idea that he’s comparing a theoretical woman of colour to a dog. OH WAIT A MINUTE, he also compared himself to a dog. In the same sentence. At the exact same time. I mean cmon, how blatant is it. “Two Labrador pups meet in the pound” that doesn’t give you a clue that he isn’t implying an entire race of people is inferior to him because of the colour of his skin? Like the only other point you have in regards to race that’s even remotely valid is the nuzzling “must be a custom” thing. And even that ain’t really racist. Nuzzling could be a custom somewhere, hell people in relationships oh and FUCKING DOGS DO IT TOO. Holy fuck man, you know that he goes on to say “pawing at me” as a little wink wink nudge nudge of what’s to come a couple of lines later.
Oh yes the unattainable figure. It’s not like there are people out there who fit this description to a T. No, it’s not like Shaq and David Spade are the same species and people come in all shapes and sizes including the one describes. Nope not at all. So how is this sexist? He’s describing someone he finds attractive, or he’s using describing words that most people would think “hey that’s an attractive woman”.
Actually in a way it kinda does, provoking a reaction of any kind from thousands of people is a win. Yes it’s bad writing but he still provoked a discussion about it.
You’re right, a teenager who’s been practicing for years is entirely capable of producing something better than a first time writer at 60. But will they produce something good, with substance that will have people wanting to buy copies? Mm, no. Probably not. Most 60 year olds don’t know enough about writing to make a great novel. But a lot of teenagers who write don’t know shit either. Obviously. Nothing is a guarantee. But if I’ve got two books in front of me, one written by a 16 year old girl about romance and one written by a 60 year old about love lost, heartache, wisdom and yes, romance. I’m going with the 60 year old, 99 times out of 100. The 1 where I don’t is cause I wanna just have a laugh for a bit so I’m picking the 16 year old who thinks she’s knows everything about love.
Yeah you’re probably right, most romance writers are most likely women, I’m not saying the genre itself has any less merit than other genres but it’s not sexist to say teenage romance writers are probably bad. Fanfic? Man that’s slightly different. I have no idea how many people of each sex write fanfic and neither do you, there’s no real stats on it. And fanfic, doesn’t have as much merit as a lot of other genres because it’s taking someone’s established work and repackaging it, it’s not original and authentic. Sure, draw inspiration but don’t just steal the characters, setting and basically everything but the plot from a writer. I mean, do it if you want but don’t say it has the same merit as The Shinning or The Grapes of Wrath.
Just a quick side note, it’s not sexist to say either of those genres are inherently worse than others just because they’re romance and fanfic. I’m not saying they are (not romance anyway), I’m just saying it’s not sexist to say so. It’s like saying “I don’t think dance therapy has anywhere near as much merit as chemical engineering” which lets face it, it doesn’t. If I was to say “all female writers are shit” now that’s sexist.
I never said anything close to hinting that I assumed women’s work was inherently less valuable than men’s. That’s you going and seeing everything as sexist again. I’m not saying female teenage writers suck. I’m saying, generally speaking, ALL teenage writers of any genre are usually pretty bad. Hence the generalisation another user used further up was indeed valid.
Oh dude. You sour summer child. You are so very wrong about so much that there’s little point debating the matter further. As you seem to set some store by such qualifications, however - and to provide some personal context for my opinions - I will say this: I’m ten years your senior, I’ve been nominated for multiple awards for my critical analysis, I’m a published author, and I’ve been quoted - and have participated - in multiple academic studies about fanfic. So yes, I can say pretty definitively that ficwriters are mostly women, that the genre is being studied and tracked, and if you think fanfic is bad because it uses characters borrowed from other stories, then you might wanna think real hard about works like Wide Sargasso Sea, Ulysses, and literally anything that borrows from mythology or Shakespeare, just to be consistent.
Riiight, I’m so wrong about every point I made so you decide to exit this conversation now, without really providing anything that counters what I was saying.
I didn’t realise Salon.com gave out awards for critical analysis.
Oh man I had no idea there were academic studies on fanfiction. Fuck me that’s the most depressing thing I’ve heard all day. Money is actually going to some hacks to sit around and say “oh yeah I really liked the bit where they made that Robert Patterson guy make out with a dude.”
I think that’s one of the reasons, but it’s not THE reason. Stealing all that work that someone’s created and essentially writing in a haphazard story isn’t exactly my idea of a classic. Oh come on. Don’t start comparing 50 Shades of Grey (which originally was a fanfic) to The Odyssey.
Your point still makes no sense. Just because you see a description of an objectively attractive woman as unobtainable doesn’t mean it’s sexist. And no, he wasn’t calling all women of colour dogs. Despite his wildly liberal use of the word “native”.