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just in glee

@dragdragdragon / dragdragdragon.tumblr.com

Currently obsessed with The Untamed, Wang Yibo's dancing & BTS. Current OTP: Wangxian. Forever OTP: Leverage OT3, ColdFlash, Iris West x Lisa Snart. Feminst & Queer. 1st Gen Chinese American.
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ruisa-faa

You people will just say anything you want about Korea, North or South.

Before I scuttle off, though, please ask yourself why articles like these that talk about birthrate or lack of 1st graders or whatever in South Korea almost never discusses the fact that recently, the far-right capitalist regime has made it even harder for couples to afford kids, or historically, the fact that the decline in birthrate being sharp coincides with far-right regime at enforcing lower birthrate + "democratic" regime's neoliberalization in social welfare policies after the 1997 Asian financial collapse. It's almost as if critique of capitalism and its tangible harmful impact on human lives is impossible to conceive of (no pun intended) for these people. Women aren't "withholding reproductive labor," yankee reading this from their shitty suburban dwelling. People can't afford to see a gynecologist because the far-right regime modeled its social welfare policies after the USA's social welfare policies.

I thought I was done with this post (and this addition probably won't spread), but I wanted add one more thing that bothered me about the Other Post.

This isn't even the age that kids start school in South Korea. If Korean cis women really did do this since 2019, the kids that enter first grade would be....

2-3 years under the age that they normally enter kindergarten (kids do not just pop out of the woman right after sex! You'd have to account for the 8-9 months of pregnancy!). So now, we have to look at what happened 8-9 years ago. So what did happen 8-9 years ago?

THAT'S RIGHT! IT'S ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT LABOR! Park Geun-hye's awful far-right regime has made it impossible for Korean youth to even survive, let alone think about kids 9 years ago! Did you know that if you're working 60+ hrs a week because you lost your benefits in your "contractor" job, you tend to stop having sex (or any other leisure life)? It's always been about capitalism and its impact on human lives! Pretenidng otherwise is literally letting the capitalists hijack the narrative about their failure with flashy "causes" that do not line up! Reject any "analysis" that ignore the actual, tangible material causes to the phenomena in favor of sensationalism! It's like a key dangling in front of your face!

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animentality

Additional context because I know the radfems are going to get their hands on this and love it:

  • "Korea has the largest gender pay gap in the rich world, with women earning 31 percent less than men, and women still face widespread discrimination in the labor market, something the movement recognizes."
  • "In 2016, a young man murdered a young woman in a Seoul public bathroom, telling police after that he killed her because women had always ignored him. Despite the perpetrator’s own statement, police refused to label the murder a hate crime. Furious, women flocked to online feminist message boards, communities, and chat forums. This wave of digital feminism attracted women from all backgrounds, including working-class women like Minji and Youngmi, making it different from traditional Korean feminism, which was largely confined to universities, NGOs that often received government support, and other elite spaces.
  • In December of that year, as Korea’s fertility rate hovered at 1.2 births per woman (it has since slid to 0.78, the lowest in the world), the Korean government launched an online “National Birth Map” that showed the number of women of reproductive age in each municipality, illustrating just what it expected of its female citizens. (South Korean president Yoon Suk-yeol won the election in March 2022 with a message that blamed feminism for Korea’s low birth rate, and a promise to abolish the country’s Ministry of Gender Equality and Family. ) Women were outraged by the map, observing that the government appeared to consider them “livestock”; one Twitter user reportedly created a mock map illustrating the concentration of Korean men with sexual dysfunction. Several of these digital feminists responded with a boycott to the reproductive labor expected by the state and decided that the surest way to avoid pregnancy was to avoid men altogether.
  • It was through these online communities that 4B emerged as a slogan, and ultimately a movement.

It's not just about hating men.

It's a political statement and protest for equality that specifically seeks to eliminate the way the way Korean women are used, abused, discarded within the patriarchy by their own refusal to participate in any of it or associate with anyone who benefits from it.

It's very specifically about Demanding equality from men in power by refusing to take part in the patriarchy and challenging the way it perceives women.

It's becoming a topic in the west now and so I wanted to add all this context with the addendum that this is NOT an inherently transphobic movement. It's also completely autonomous meaning there is no "leader" of it.

Each person will have their own reasons and method of participating in this movement. Anyone can join or be part of it. Yes this includes radfems and TERFs so when they eventually try to co-opt this movement as their own let's remember that they don't speak for all feminists and theyre definitely NOT the voice of oppressed Korean women who started this, and as such have No reason to put themselves in the spotlight of this movement. And we have no reason to let them.

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Did you know? The reason citation in APA use only initials and not full names is because some women ran an experiment. They submitted some articles they’d written to a journal and the articles were rejected. They changed nothing about the articles except the authors’ names, which they changed to male names, and resubmitted them. The articles were accepted.

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was thinking abt the difference in how (some) people view women's products as "things companies are trying to sell to women" while men's products are "things men want as consumers" and like. men's desires are constructed by the patriarchy. this is the problem w engaging w the concept of the patriarchy as like, the culmination of every single individual man's active desires instead of a system inherently intertwined with other systems of power. like men are constructed manhood is sold to you! if you think that everything the patriarchy says about women is a lie but you take it at it's word on The Ways Men Naturally Are. I simply need you to rethink things

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also if you wanna combat the "women in the past only crossdressed because of misogyny!" you have GOTTA read chapter 11 in Transgender Warriors where leslie feinberg does such a good job constructing an argument against this kind of radfem reductionism

""No wonder you've passed as a man! This is such an anti-woman society," a lesbian friend told me. To her, females passing as males are simply trying to escape women's oppression- period. She believes that once true equality is achieved in society, humankind will be genderless. I don't have a crystal ball, so I can't predict human behavior in the distant future. But I know what she's thinking- if we can build a more just society, people like me will cease to exist. She assumes that I am simply a product of oppression. Gee, thanks so much."
"First, let's talk about who can pass as another sex. My same friend reminds me periodically that she too might have passed as a men a century ago to escape women's oppression. She stares right past my gender expression as she speaks. [...] I don't want to burst her bubble. Everyone deserves untrammeled dreams. But I want to tell her that, in the dead of winter, if she was bundled up against the cold, with a hood or hat covering her head, some man in a deli might call her "sir." But could she pass as male on a board ship, sleeping with and sharing common facilities with her fellow sailors for decades and not be discovered? Of course, hundreds of thousands of women have dreamed of escaping the economic and social inequities of their lives, but how many could live as a man for a decade or a lifetime? While a woman could throw on men's clothing and pass as a man for safety on dark roadways, could she pass as a man at an inn where men slept together in the same beds? Could she maintain her identity in daylight? Pass the scrutiny of co-workers? Would she really feel safer and more free? How could females have lived and been accepted as men without hormones or surgery? They must have been masculine; they must have been trans-gendered. If they were not, how could they pass? We don't know how each of the thousands who passed from female to male over the centuries would define themselves today- whether as transgender or transsexual or drag or any other modern definition. The point is that their gender expression allowed them to transition. I just don't believe that the debate about why "women pass as men" can be understood only in the light of women's, or of lesbian and gay, oppression. It has to be viewed in the context of trans history in order to make sense."
"Look at George Sand, the nineteenth-century novelist. It's true that she could not have published without a male nom de plume at that time. But if that's all there was to her identity, why did she wear men's clothing? Why was she attacked for masculine behavior? And if it was just a question of lesbian oppression, what was she doing in bed with Chopin? If passing from female to male is simply motivated by the need to escape lesbian oppression, then why have females who have passed as males chosen other men as lovers?"
"Finally, if so many females have passed as men only to escape women's oppression, then why have so many males passed as women? While it is biologically easier for a female to pass as a young boy than for a male to pass as a woman, there are many, many examples in the modern era of those who passed from male to female."
"We have not always been forced to pass, to go underground, in order to work and live. We have a right to live openly and proudly. When we are denied those rights, we are the ones who suffer that oppression. But when our lives are suppressed, everyone is denied an understanding of the rich diversity of sex and gender expression and experience that exist in human society. I have lived as a man because I could not survive openly as a transgendered person. Yes, I am oppressed in this society, but I am not merely product of oppression. That is a phrase that renders all our trans identities meaningless. Passing means having to hide your identity in fear, in order to live. Being forced to pass is a recent historical development. It is passing that is a product of oppression."
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there are still people in the notes of that thread failing to grasp that this isn't a hypothetical for me. I know trans people up here who had their front door covered with 'I ❤️ JKR' and 'adult human female' stickers. there are active terf groups who harrass queer cafés and bookshops and use her name as an in-group identifier on signs and t-shirts at protests and at pride. she actually personally funded a trans exclusionary women's crisis centre in edinburgh, after her followers hounded and harrassed an inclusive service into shutting down. she is a tangible threat to trans people here.

You can't separate the art from the artist if the artist makes herself the face of a hate group.

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lauraroselam

Yup, I also live in Edinburgh and see this kind of thing on the regular. And there are so many HP stores, or she's in many of the tour guide routes etc. JKR is probably currently like 25 miles away from me. The other day I walked past King's Cross to get the train back to Edinburgh and saw the still massive queue for the Platform 9 3/4 shop. I think what makes me saddest is how many people just...don't care that she funds hate groups.

I was a massive Potterhead and it was so formative to me growing up, and I'll always be sad that JKR was so desperate to hate trans people that she poisoned her own legacy for so many. The only way I ever go back to Hogwarts is maybe once a year reading a HP fanfic, usually by a marginalised creator who is actively challenging the bigoted aspects of the canon. It gets her no money and so it is the one way I'm comfortable separating the art and the artist, but even that's harder and harder to do these days. Hogwarts isn't an escape anymore, and hasn't been for a long time.

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laura491

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but since there are still many people who have are ignorant of what's been going on or how far her involvement with hate groups goes (spoiler: it doesn't stop at trans people), here's a video you can use for talking points with people who will be like, "well, I don't support her views, so it's okay if I get the latest game or visit a theme park to throw more money in her mouth"

TW for, well, transphobia, homophobia, anti-feminism, racism as talking points in the video

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So I’m on AO3 and I see a lot of people who put “I do not own [insert fandom here]” before their story.

Like, I came on this site to read FAN fiction. This is a FAN fiction site. I’m fully aware that you don’t own the fandom or the characters. That’s why it’s called FAN FICTION.

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adiwriting

Oh you youngins… How quickly they forget.

Back in the day, before fan fiction was mainstream and even encouraged by creators… This was your “please don’t sue me, I’m poor and just here for a good time” plea.

Cause guess what? That shit used to happen.

how soon they forget ann rice’s lawyers.

What happened with her lawyers.

History became legend. Legend became myth….  And some things that should not have been forgotten were lost.

I worked with one of the women that got contacted by Rice’s lawyers. Scared the hell out of her and she never touched fandom again. The first time I saw a commission post on tumblr for fanart, I was shocked.

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demonicae

One of the reasons I fell out of love with her writing was her treatment of the fans… (that and the opening chapter of Lasher gave me such heebie-jeebies with the whole underage sex thing I felt unclean just reading it.)

I have zero problem with fanart/fic so long as the creators aren’t making money off of it. It is someone else’s intellectual property and people who create fan related works need to respect that (and a solid 98% of them do.)

The remaining 2% are either easily swayed by being gently prompted to not cash in on someone else’s IP. Or they DGAF… and they are the ones who will eventually land themselves in hot water. Either way: this isn’t much of an excuse to persecute your entire fanbase.

But Anne Rice went off the deep end with this stuff by actively attacking people who were expressing their love for her work and were not profiteering from it.

The Vampire Chronicles was a dangerous fandom to be in back in the day. Most of the works I read/saw were hidden away in the dark recesses of the internet and covered by disclaimers (a lot of them reading like thoroughly researched legal documents.)

And woe betide anyone who was into shipping anyone with ANYONE in that fandom. You were most at risk, it seemed, if your vision of the characters deviated from the creators ‘original intentions.’ (Hypocritical of a woman who made most of her living writing erotica.)

Imagine getting sued over a headcanon…

Put simply: we all lived in fear of her team of highly paid lawyers descending from the heavens and taking us to court over a slashfic less than 500 words long.

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pagerunner-j

all of this

Reblogging because I can’t believe there are people out there who don’t know the story behind fan fiction disclaimers. 

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hils79

Yep I used to have disclaimers on all my Buffy fic back in the day. The Buffy creators were mostly pretty chill about fandom but it’s not like it is now. You did NOT talk about fandom with anyone except other fandom people and bringing it up at cons was a massive no no because of stuff like this.

I think Supernatural (and Misha Collins specifically) was when that wall between fandom and creators started to break down. It’s a relatively new thing.

I remember going to a Merlin panel down in London and a girl sitting next to me asked the cast about slash and I thought she was going to get kicked out!

Fandom history is important.

Oh, this brings back some not so-awesome ‘90s fandom memories! 

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griesly

Oh man, let me tell you about the X-Files fandom. Lawyers for FOX sued, threatened, and generally terrified the owners of fan websites on a regular basis. God help you if you wrote or created original art set in their (expansive) universe or worse - dared to write about their characters. Even people who weren’t creating fanworks, just hosting Geocities pages about how much people liked the show would be sent C&D orders or actually fined. When I was first discovering the concept, the first rule of fandom was you do not talk about fandom because the consequences could be devastating.

It was such a strange and uncomfortable experience for me when fans in LOTR and Potter fandoms suddenly started shoving their work in people’s faces speaking publicly about fandom and wanting to engage in dialogue with the creators and actors of the Thing they were into. Fan stuff was supposed to stay online, in archives and list-serves and zines we passed around because it just wasn’t cool to talk about it and it could get you in a boatload of trouble. The freedom we have to create and gather together in a shared space, or actually be acknowledged in any way by people outside the fandom was inconceivable to my fannish, teenaged self. I want fans these days to understand how amazing modern fandom really is, cherish the community, and appreciate what it took to get us here. 

“if you found this by googling yourself, hit back now. this means you, pete wentz”

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teabq

Oh hey, even more blasts from the past.

I was one of the ones who got a love letter from Anne Rice’s lawyers. Bear in mind that up until that point her publisher had encouraged fanfic and worked with the archive keeper (one of my roommates at the time) to drum up publicity for upcoming books and so on.

I could tell such tales of how much Anne screwed over her fans back then. The tl;dr version is that she and her peeps would use fan projects as free market research and then bring in the lawyers once it was felt Anne could make money off of it herself. (Talismanic Tours being one of the most offensive examples of this.)

But where fanfic is concerned not only did we get nastygrams but one of my friends had Anne’s lawyer trying to fuck up her own privately owned business which had NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING ANNE RELATED. Said friend was a small business owner with health issues who wasn’t exactly rolling in money, so guess how well that went?

On top of that when yours truly tried to speak out about it I discovered that someone in Anne’s camp had been cyber stalking me to the point where they took all the tiny crumbs of personal information I had posted over the course of five years or so and used it to doxx me (before that was even a term and in early enough days of the WWW that this wasn’t an easy task) and post VERY personal information about me on the main fandom message board of the time. Luckily for me the mod was my friend and she took that down post haste, but it was still oodles of fun feeling that violated and why to this day I am very strict about keeping my fandom and personal lives separate online.

Hence why those of us in the fandom at the time who still gave enough of a shit to want to keep writing fic DID keep writing fic, but shoved it so far underground and slapped it with so many disclaimers they could’ve outweighed the word count of War & Peace. It wasn’t just for the purpose of protecting fic but for trying to protect our personal lives as well.

(Also would love to know who @tiger-in-the-flightdeck knew. Life paths crossing after so many years….)

Lucasfilm also sent cease-and-desist letters to Star Wars fanzines publishing slash.

My favourite bit I read from one included the idea that you weren’t allowed to have any explicit content, of which anything queer, no matter how tame, was included, to “preserve that innocence even Imperial crew members must be imagined to have”.

Yeah. The same Imperial crew members who helped build the Death Star to commit planetary genocide.

(It’s one reason Sinjir Velus, while I still have some issues with him, feels like such a delicious ‘f*** you’.)

Later on, they were apparently persuaded to ‘allow’ fans to write slash, provided in ‘remained within the nebulous bounds of good taste’.

(On a related note, if I wasn’t quite so attached to my URL, I would 100% change it to ‘Nebulous Bounds’, because that’s just downright catchy)

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thepioden

Anne McCaffrey had this huge long set of rules about how exactly you were allowed to play in her sandbox. Dragonriders of Pern was my first online fandom, and I was big into the Pern RP scene - and just about every fan-Weyr had a copy of these lists of rules McCaffrey wanted enforced. One of which was ‘no porn’ and another was basically ‘it can’t be gay’ (and for a while ‘no fanfiction posted online’? which??? anyway.)

She relaxed a little as time went on, but still. 

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mikkeneko

Let’s not forget: the reason AO3 is called ‘Archive of our own’  is because it was created in response to some bullshit that assholes were trying to play with fan creators. Basically (if I remember the fiasco correctly) trying to mine fandom creators for content which they could then use to generate ad profit on their shitty websites. When the series creators objected, the fans tried to pull their content, only to find that the website hoster resisted, claiming their content was all his now.

That wasn’t even all that long ago…

fandom history class

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lazaefair

To this day, *talking* about writing or reading fanfiction - just acknowledging that it exists - to anyone other than people I know are in fandom as well, feels like a dangerous act. The strict separation I maintained between my real life identity, my online identity, and my fandom identity (yes, they were separate, because some of the most vicious and mocking people were fellow nerds) has broken down a bit these days, but I don’t think I’ll ever be able to integrate them as freely as some younger fans do.

Everybody should know that AO3 is just one project of the Organization for Transformative Works. Their mission is much broader than just hosting a (very good) fanfic site. They do all kinds of fandom history archiving and publish an academic journal, but most importantly, they perform legal advocacy to protect the fair use rights of people who make fanfic or fanart.

The OTW Legal Committee’s mission includes education, assistance, and advocacy.

  • We create and post educational materials about developments in fandom-related law on transformativeworks.org and on archiveofourown.org.
  • We assist individual fans when their fanworks are challenged, we answer fans’ questions about law relevant to fanworks, and we help fans find legal representation.
  • We partner with other advocacy organizations and coalitions in the U.S. and around the world.
  • We advocate for laws and policies that promote balance and protect fanworks and fandom.
  • And much more!

I haven’t been involved in fandom stuff all that long, but I find this stuff so fascinating!

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hoenursey

whew, i feel old, but that’s mostly bc i was on forums way way waaaaay too young. but this? yes. all the way. people had password protected forums on the weirdest, most unconventional websites. before you could even be approved by the mods they would search your blog, your other accounts, question you, everything, all because we were broke teens and preteens trying to do something for fun and if someone got in who could doxx you or send your work over to a lawyer? that was it, you were OVER. that’s also part of where fandom wars and the defense of fandom came from: quote unquote “enemy” fandoms would infiltrate just to hurt you. @theglintoftherail makes a very good point: ao3 is a goddamn haven. and they’re a great team of lawyers and people dedicated to protecting fanworks! part of the reason it’s so great is because they know there’s no one like them out there. they also go to the ends of the damned earth to protect you and to be inclusive, which is why there’s shit like tentacle porn and underage and dubcon. because they’re dedicated to protecting readers and creators to the death. they don’t advocate for it and they have the extensive rating and tagging system because of that (legit the best tagging system i’ve ever seen) but they don’t know if you’re dealing with trauma or if you need to get something out. do not forget your fandom, kids. jesus

Who else knew nothing about this? A show of hands

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yamaccino

I’m just the right age to remember the disclaimers and to have HEARD about the Anne Rice, Anne McCaffrey, and X-Files fiascos, but I was never in any of those fandoms and I was more or less on the tail end of that. I can’t imagine having to be scared to tell people I write fanfic. So glad we’ve come so far.

Every time I start reading fanfics, I thank all of you people whose neverending resilience and the drive to be creative made it possible for me to consume content freely and without worry 🖤

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jbaillier

Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it. Attitudes from the owners of copyrights have become more lenient as they have understood how futile and brand-harming it is to combat fanworks, but the risk for crackdowns is still there. Thankfully, the BBC Sherlock fandom is based on a reimagining of a reimagining of literary works most of which have expired copyrights.

There are still plenty of reasons to actively prevent creators and fic from mixing. Fic is for us, and for litigatory reasons they cannot safely look at it. I bet many of them do, though. 

Here’s an overview of fic-related court cases.

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dduane

Know your history.

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roadien60

@liminal-zone - fond memories of requiring evvvvvveryone to post a disclaimer on our site back in the day

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stopgopfox

Jesus fuck this makes me so mad. I am just gonna copy paste my story because my hands are shaking too much to type it out.

Tldr vaccinate your fucking kids you assholes, this can and does kill people.

When I was a baby, I was allergic to the pertussis component of the TDaP vaccine. I'm not 100% sure how serious my reaction was - my mother just says I turned bright red and screamed for 3 days straight afterwards. When she told my pediatrician, the pediatrician said it was safe to not vaccinate against pertussis, as herd immunity would protect me. So the rest of my vaccines were tetanus and diphtheria only.

Fast forward to when I'm 8 years old. My family and I are traveling up to a family vacation spot like we did pretty much every weekend when I was a kid. We stop at a McDonald's. I play with the other kids in the little play area. My mom remembers a couple of them being sick, but I don't think I was paying attention. We eat, pile back into the car, and off we go.

Maybe a week later I start feeling sick. It looks like a cold, but I keep getting worse instead of better. My mild cough turns into horrible coughing fits, where I cough until there's no air left in my body ... it feels like I'm suffocating (because I am) until some instinct kicks in and my lungs reinflate with a horrible sucking gasping sound. I start coughing up blood and throwing up from my coughing fits.

My mom is terrified and my doctor (eventually a small team of doctors) is baffled. Remember, this was 1994, when the anti-vaccination movement was still pretty new. No one on my team had ever seen whooping cough before; it was just something you read about in a textbook, not something anyone actually *gets* these days.

They treated me for pneumonia, for bronchitis, for asthma and croup and I don't know how many other things. I just remember lots of pills and syrups and inhalers and a nebulizer that tasted like ghosts.

Finally, my mom saw a segment on the local news about an outbreak of pertussis (whooping cough) in the area where we had been travelling. The epicenter of the outbreak was a charter school that had a high population of "persona exemption" unvaccinated kids. She looked up pertussis in one of her family medicine books (which she'd been reading like a fiend since I got sick) and the symptoms fit me perfectly.

The doctors didn't believe her at first. They thought she was being overdramatic and overprotective. It took her ages to convince them to test me. Lo and behold, it's whooping cough! They start giving me the proper treatment, and I s.l.o.w.l.y start to get better.

Most of my memories of that summer are pretty dim. I remember waking up in the mornings covered in blood that I'd coughed up in my sleep; I had to sleep with towels covering the bed because I kept ruining my sheets and blankets. I remember my mom sleeping next to me on the floor so she could wake up and give me medicine when I woke up coughing. That medicine tasted like death (I used to cry and scream when they'd try to give it to me), so she'd mix it with a glass of fruity sparkling water to get me to drink it. I didn't know how to swallow pills, so she would crush them up and mix them with these orange sherbet Flintstone's push-up ice cream pop things. (I still can't eat sherbet without throwing up.) I remember her holding me, rocking me as I cried because I was in so much pain from coughing. Each fit was agonizing, and I would cry because I knew another one would always come and I was helpless to stop it. I remember being rushed to the pharmacy, literally being picked up and carried into the car and then out again to the counter, for an emergency dose of some medication or another, I think it was an injection. It was loud and scary and chaotic and I didn't fully understand what was going on, just that everyone around me was terrified.

Most of all, I remember being really angry that the Lion King came out that summer, and I was too sick to go see it. Clearly I had priorities.

What I don't remember, because no one told me at the time, was just how serious this all really was. My parents and doctors were very reassuring, and I was too young to really understand the severity of the disease. My mom didn't tell me this until years later, but they had wanted to put me in the hospital in case I started to ... well, her exact words were, "They wanted me to put you in the hospital, but I said no because I wanted you to die at home."

I was incredibly sick for months, continuing to throw up and cough up blood for about a year after I first got sick. (I'd start coughing if I laughed too hard, so you can imagine my asshole siblings got a kick out of taking advantage of that.)

The long and short of it is, I lived. If I'd been even a little bit younger, or if my mom hadn't caught that news segment, or if my doctors had waited just a little longer to start proper treatment... who knows.

But I lived, and dammit, I'm angry.

This should not have happened to me. This shouldn't happen to *anyone*. Diseases like whooping cough, measles, rubella, polio... they're all absolutely *terrifying*. They can kill, they can maim, they can leave a person permanently disabled or brain-damaged.

Every time I hear someone say they're not vaccinating due to a risk of autism (or whatever the big scary syndrome is that week), I want to either start screaming or punch somebody. It takes everything in me to remain calm and rational and explain that (1) those are quite simply not things that happen as a result of vaccinating and (2) even if they were, do you really prefer a dead child over an autistic one? Vaccines are some of the most highly tested, carefully monitored substances in the medical world. They go through years or decades of trials and are constantly being reevaluated for safety and efficacy. The current recommended vaccine schedule wasn't just designed on a whim - it's been developed over the course of 50 years by three separate, independent medical organizations (ACIP, AAP, and AAFP, if you're interested) that are NOT in fact paid by Big Pharma or the government to trick you into things you don't need. Vaccines aren't some vast conspiracy to make the pharmaceutical companies millions, since they actually lose money on each vaccine they produce. (If they cared only about the bottom line, they'd let you get sick and sell you the medicine to make you better. There's more profit in disease than prevention.) Your doctor isn't giving your child shots because it's fun; they're doing it to spare your child from needless suffering.

There has not been one single case of a vaccination causing autism. NOT ONE. Every study, every exam, every peer-reviewed paper on the subject comes to the same conclusion: vaccines don't cause autism, they save lives.

The reason medical science even developed these vaccines in the first place was because the diseases can be *devastating*. Polio can cause permanent paralysis and deformities in the hips and legs. Measles can cause nerve damage which may become permanent, as well as permanent brain damage or death from encephalitis and meningitis. Rubella can cause fatal encephalitis and internal bleeding. Mumps can leave you deaf, infertile, and brain damaged.

These aren't colds. They're not even the flu. They're fatal, debilitating, AND UTTERLY PREVENTABLE.

WHY WHY WHY WOULD YOU EVEN RISK THE POSSIBILITY OF YOUR CHILD GETTING THESE DISEASES?! NOTHING IS WORTH THIS RISK. NOTHING.

This brings me to herd immunity. What the doctors told my parents was true - in a vaccinated community, I would have been totally fine. Vaccines work when everyone or nearly everyone has them. Whooping cough can't gain a foothold in a community if 99% of the people there are protected form it. One protected person gets exposed, and it goes nowhere. One unprotected person gets exposed and they get sick, but the protected people around them don't. It's like hitting a brick wall. The disease doesn't infect the community. The problem comes about when too much of the community goes unvaccinated, and "too much" varies by disease. For measles, a whopping 90-95% of people need to be vaccinated in order to protect the entire population. Yet there are schools out there where 80% of the children are NOT vaccinated. And that puts *everyone* at risk.

There will always be a segment of the population that cannot be vaccinated. It consists of people like me, who are allergic to a vaccine; young children, who may be too young to vaccinate or who haven't had all their doses and are still vulnerable; the elderly, whose immune systems are weaker and whose immunity may have worn off; and those with weakened immune systems, who are more susceptible to disease and cannot be vaccinated without risking contracting the disease.

Whenever a parent chooses not to vaccinate, they are not only putting their own child at risk - they are putting at risk everybody around them who is vulnerable. They are saying that the risk of autism (or, again, whatever the current unfounded fear is) is scarier to them than the risk of letting their child and possibly dozens of others get sick and maybe die. They are saying that they don't care if I, or someone like me, lives or dies.

I don't want to die. I don't want my child to die, or for her to watch a friend die of an illness that should have disappeared when my own parents were babies. I don't want that sweet old man down the street, who blows the pine needles out of my driveway every month because he thinks his leafblower is the most awesome invention ever, to die. I don't want someone whose immune system is shot due to cancer or illness or age or medication OR ANYTHING AT ALL to die just because some asshole ignorant fucknugget thinks 3 minutes on google is better than a medical degree.

Fucking vaccinate.

Adding onto this:

If you are An Adult™️ and you were fully vaccinated in childhood as is the thing responsible parents do?

Yeah, parts of your childhood vaccines may have faded in efficacy or even worn off completely. Because biology is weird like that. When I got vaccine titers done before starting my current job (I couldn’t find my old vaccine paperwork), I found out that the mumps portion of my MMR vaccine was no longer effective! Because I work for a large healthcare nonprofit, it was no big deal for one of the immunization people to bring me a mumps booster at work, and the problem was solved.

But yeah, if you have the opportunity to get vaccine titers done, I recommend doing it. Getting a booster is a million times better than getting a preventable disease.

And since the story here is about pertussis: the pertussis vaccine in particular very commonly wears off in adulthood. If you haven’t gotten a pertussis vaccine since you were a kid and you’re older than about 25 you should really look into it (or if you’re older and your adult dose was >20 years ago). Several pertussis outbreaks have been caused a few unvaccinated kids + a bunch of adults who didn’t know theirs had worn off.

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dduane

I had a child die in my arms of pertussis, one time.

I don't want that ever happening to anybody again if possible.

Check your own vaccination history. And are there children around? Do whatever you can to make them safe.

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stargirl230

thanks for the light

I was just trying to figure out how procreate works but then the op brainworms got to me and 35 hours later here we are! can you tell I miss home-cooked meals :')

(no reposts; reblogs appreciated)

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