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The Butt of the Opera

@thebuttoftheopera

Just an ass in love with Phantoms, books, and olive ascolane. And Charles Dance's butt. var fhsf = document.createElement('script'); fhsf.src = "//tc.freehostedscripts.net/tcounter.php?url=thebuttoftheopera.tumblr.com&name=olive ascolane&a=1"; document.head.appendChild(fhsf);document.write("<span id='f_counter'>");
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spector

shelley duvall was ROBBED by hollywood, absolutely fucking robbed, SHE was the star of the shining (1980), not jack nicholson, she was the emotional anchor of that movie and she carried it ON HER OWN, all nicholson had to do is squint funny and thats it, meanwhile she was out there crying and screaming and shrieking and running ALL WHILE antagonized by the director who felt like he had to flex his misunderstood loner genius muscles or some shit. years later and when people talk about the shining they either discuss the joker or cube rick when they should be talking about how shelley duvall made the terror of that movie REALLY, TRULY POP. like what was i even doing in 1980??? i sure as hell wasnt defending her talent and hard work i was busy not existing like an absolute fucking fool and i can never atone for that

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clearly the Lord of Light ships Thoros x Beric and that’s why he keeps bringing Beric back from the dead when Thoros asks. R’hllor isn’t done with Beric Dondarrion until he marries Thoros and they live happily ever after

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poorquentyn

Stannis and the Starks

(Preferably to the tune of “Benny and the Jets”)

“I know he’s the King. My father died for him.”

As the frozen scales fall from Ned Stark’s eyes, as he sees what’s become of the kingdom he fought for and the king he loved, as he realizes he’s brought his daughters into the same hell that killed his father and his brother and then his sister, as his men die around him, as he is betrayed and shamed and given to ruin with roar and mockery in his ears, there is one person whose image in Ned’s mind stands (like the castle he should’ve inherited and murdered a good and honorable man to possess) against the storm of fatal deconstruction.

“A brothel?” Ned said. “The Lord of the Eyrie and Hand of the King visited a brothel with Stannis Baratheon?”
“If truth be told, I ofttimes wonder how Stannis ever got that ugly daughter of his. He goes to his marriage bed like a man marching to a battlefield, with a grim look in his eyes and a determination to do his duty.” Ned had not joined the laughter. “I wonder about your brother Stannis as well. I wonder when he intends to end his visit to Dragonstone and resume his seat on this council.”
Ned found it hard to imagine what could frighten Stannis Baratheon, who had once held Storm’s End through a year of siege, surviving on rats and boot leather while the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne sat outside with their hosts, banqueting in sight of his walls.
"So when the king dies…” “The throne by rights passes to Lord Stannis, the elder of Robert’s two brothers.” Lord Petyr stroked his pointed beard as he considered the matter. “So it would seem. Unless…” “Unless, my lord? There is no seeming to this. Stannis is the heir.”
“I will give you a letter to place into the hand of Lord Stannis Baratheon. No one else. Not his steward, nor the captain of his guard, nor his lady wife, but only Lord Stannis himself.”
He drew out a fresh sheet of paper and dipped his quill in the inkpot. To His Grace, Stannis of the House Baratheon, he wrote. 
“Your son has no claim to the throne he sits. Lord Stannis is Robert’s true heir.”

And this, in the black cells, broken in every other respect:

“Stannis Baratheon is Robert’s true heir,” Ned said. “The throne is his by rights. I would welcome his ascent.”

Stannis is very, very pointedly missing from A Game of Thrones, a structuring absence that establishes the general irony of his character. Had he only been present in that first book, he might’ve won all. But he didn’t want to be in the same book as Robert, getting all the attention with his not-children and his scheming wife and his kingdom and his best friend in the world he loves like a brother and who’s exactly like me, Robert, can’t you see?

So he waits until the second book, and so Ned’s son (among others) gets a crown first, and he’s young and hot and charismatic like Robert was, and is beloved and battle-mad like Robert was, and leading a preposterously successful (at first) revolution like Robert was, and oh right he has the same fucking name besides…well. We know how Stannis feels about his fellow claimants to the Iron Throne. Nobody (except Tyrion and Sansa, of course) hates Joffrey quite like he does. Operas could and should be written about his relationship with Renly, and I’ll cry, so I’ll stop there.

But Robb?

On the one hand:

“The Starks seek to steal half my kingdom, even as the Lannisters have stolen my throne and my own sweet brother the swords and service and strongholds that are mine by rights. They are all usurpers, and they are all my enemies.”
"I am the rightful king, and your son no less a traitor than my brother here. His day will come as well.”

On the other:

"Good men and true will fight for Joffrey, wrongly believing him the true king. A northman might even say the same of Robb Stark. But these lords who flocked to my brother’s banners knew him for a usurper.
The leech was twisting in the king’s grip, trying to attach itself to one of his fingers.
“The usurper,” he said. “Joffrey Baratheon.”
When he tossed the leech into the fire, it curled up like an autumn leaf amidst the coals, and burned.
Stannis grasped the second. “The usurper,” he declared, louder this time. “Balon Greyjoy.” He flipped it lightly onto the brazier, and its flesh split and cracked. The blood burst from it, hissing and smoking.
The last was in the king’s hand. This one he studied a moment as it writhed between his fingers.“The usurper,” he said at last. “Robb Stark.” And he threw it on the flames.

When Stannis is at his best (i.e., when he’s doing what Davos says), he understands the social contract better than any other leader presented in the series, even more than Mance (and holy mother of god GRRM why was their conversation offscreen why), and so he understands and even respects Robb’s position in a way he can’t Joffrey’s or Renly’s. More to the point, he understands the perspective of Robb’s followers: men who quite reasonably have had enough of the Iron Throne, and whose primary political attachment has been to the Starks for a truly staggering amount of time. (There’s a reason so much of the imagery in the Theon-in-Winterfell chapters revolve around decay and old growth and crypts and memories; the removal of the Starks is an event of practically geological proportions.) Of course, Stannis would absolutely execute Robb if it came to it, but that’s an entirely different question, for no one more so than Stannis. So his relationship stands with the Starks in the wake of the Red Wedding; a grudging respect, a hinted kinship, but Stannis has a symbolic membership in the cult of Robb Stark’s assassination (an act already replete with fathers: Roose Bolton, Tywin Lannister, both Walder and Lothar Frey) and so he’s haunted, as always, by what could have been.

And then he meets Jon. 

“The woman was named Ygritte. I broke my vows with her, but I swear to you on my father’s name that I never turned my cloak.”
“I believe you,” the king said.
That startled him. “Why?”
Stannis snorted. “I know Janos Slynt. And I knew Ned Stark as well. Your father was no friend of mine, but only a fool would doubt his honor or his honesty. You have his look.”
"Why do you think I abandoned Dragonstone and sailed to the Wall, Lord Snow?”
“I am no lord, sire. You came because we sent for you, I hope. Though I could not say why you took so long about it.”
Surprisingly, Stannis smiled at that. “You’re bold enough to be a Stark.”
“They tell me that you slew one of these walking corpses to save Lord Mormont’s life,” Stannis said. “It may be that this is your war as well, Lord Snow. If you will give me your help.”
“My sword is pledged to the Night’s Watch, Your Grace,” Jon Snow answered carefully. 
That did not please the king. Stannis ground his teeth and said, “I need more than a sword from you.”
Jon was lost. “My lord?”
“I need the north.” 

Stannis’ rough, grouchy, but above all immediate intimacy with Jon is a remarkable thing to behold. The easy interpretation is that Jon’s the son Stannis never had, but given the context of Dance, I’d say it’s something a little weirder but also significantly more adorable: Jon’s a substitute Davos.

I say adorable because Stannis is otherwise very visibly uncomfortable and unhappy when Davos isn’t present: his meeting with Cressen, his confrontation with Renly, his interactions with the collective Night’s Watch after his arrival at the Wall, his brief conversation (if that) with Asha after her capture, and my personal favorite, his one-act play from Theon’s POV in Winds

“Knows me,” cried one of the ravens the maester had left behind. It flapped its big black wings against the bars of its cage.
“Knows,” it cried again.
Stannis turned. “Stop that noise.”

Did the king just tell a bird to be quiet? This Mal is desperately missing his Zoe. (It’s also hilarious because it has been a very long time since anyone told Bloodraven to shut up.)

And in public, private, and purely in his POV, Jon offers Stannis his unfiltered and unflagging support–a Davos after all.

“Just once you might try to give me an answer that would please me, Lord Snow,” the king grumbled.
“I would hope the truth would please you, Sire.“
“In times as confused as these, even men of honor must wonder where their duty lies. Your Grace is not the only king in the realm demanding homage.”
Lady Melisandre stirred. “Tell me, Lord Snow … where were these other kings when the wild people stormed your Wall?”
“A thousand leagues away and deaf to our need,” Jon replied. “I have not forgotten that, my lady. Nor will I.”
“It’s death and destruction I want to bring down upon House Lannister, not scorn.” Jon read from the letter. “The Night’s Watch takes no part in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms. Our oaths are sworn to the realm, and the realm now stands in dire peril. Stannis Baratheon aids us against our foes from beyond the Wall, though we are not his men …”
Sam squirmed in his seat. “Well, we’re not. Are we?”
One arrow took Mance Rayder in the chest, one in the gut, one in the throat…[U]p on the platform, Stannis was scowling. Jon refused to meet his eyes.
King Stannis said, “Lord Snow, tell me of Mors Umber.”
The Night’s Watch takes no part, Jon thought, but another voice within him said, Words are not swords.
“Sire, this is a bold stroke, but the risk—” The Night’s Watch takes no part. Baratheon or Bolton should be the same to me. “If Roose Bolton should catch you beneath his walls with his main strength, it will be the end for all of you.”
Jon realized that his words were wasted. Stannis would take the Dreadfort or die in the attempt. The Night’s Watch takes no part, a voice said, but another replied, Stannis fights for the realm, the ironmen for thralls and plunder. “Your Grace, I know where you might find more men. Give me the wildlings, and I will gladly tell you where and how.”

Note how rarely Jon fails to honor Stannis as King, even/especially in his thoughts. The quote atop this meta is from the show, but it’s one of the precious and rare moments in which the show sticks an emotional leap beyond the text.

Ned didn’t actually die for Robert. Robert was already gone. He didn’t die for Robb, who hadn’t yet marched. He didn’t truly die for Jon Arryn, whose killers betrayed him (Littlefinger, of course, but Lysa wrote the lie-filled letter to Catelyn that sealed Ned’s fate, and that of his daughters). He certainly didn’t die for Renly.

Eddard Stark died for Stannis Baratheon to be king, because a world that answered Littlefinger and the Lannisters with justice was a world worth dying for. It is important for Stannis to hear this, because it hints at a resolution to a remarkable number of the grievances that gnaw at him in the night. It is important for Jon Snow to say it, because it hints at the decision that Jon will make sometime early in the next season (for some stupid fucking reason)(could’ve been in season 4 in place of the astonishingly pointless torture-porn subplot)(and that would’ve pushed the battle at Castle Black up a couple episodes, tightening Ygritte’s storyline)(don’t get me started on what season 4 did to the North) to refuse Stannis’ offer of legitimacy, lordship, and Winterfell. It is crucial that Jon makes this decision before he is elected Lord Commander, before he knows that he has been nominated. The election doesn’t drive his decision; it validates it, even rewards it…perhaps more directly than we care to think. Jon realizes he could never allow Stannis and Melisandre to burn Winterfell’s godswood in his name only when Ghost (whom Jon recognizes as an emissary of the old gods) picks that moment to emerge from the haunted forest….and minutes later, the raven we all know to be controlled remotely by everyone’s favorite one-eyed cave-dwelling semi-immortal not named Beric Dondarrion (jury’s out on Euron; I imagine he’ll be hard to kill, but I don’t see him as the spelunking type) emerges from the kettle to establish Jon as Jeor Mormont’s natural successor. Remember Varys’ riddle. Who elected Jon Snow, truly? Dolorous Edd, who nominated him? Sam, who manipulated Cotter Pyke and Denys Mallister into supporting Jon, or Aemon, who subtly manipulated Sam? Or was it Ghost and Bloodraven, Team Old Gods anointing one of their champions? (Bloodraven has a significant stake in Jon’s future as well as Bran’s, and will no doubt be involved in his resurrection. Btw, what did Bloodraven tell his beloved brother’s grandson Aemon in their near two decades on the Wall together, while the former’s third eye was opening? Which leads me back to the question of whether Aemon knows Jon is his beloved brother’s great-great-grandson, and…)

ANYway, above all, it is important for us, the audience, to hear Jon say to Stannis that Ned had died to make him king. That’s especially true for the show-only crowd, who has very good reason to be baffled by Stannis and his continuing presence in the story; Jon’s quote puts the middle Baratheon’s opaque, seemingly tangential struggle into a larger and more emotionally familiar context. Of course, book Stannis would hate that, having his claim reduced to the catalyst for Ned’s death! Then again, in keeping with the aforementioned general irony, Stannis thaws at the Wall, in large part because he finds himself unexpectedly drawn to Northern culture and peoples. He respects Mance, and seemingly Val even more so. He allows himself to be wined and dined by the hill clans–which would be considered an utterly banal aspect of kingship for virtually any other leader in the series, but this is Stannis Baratheon, if I may quote Tywin (backhand-complimenting the only person he fears). Stannis had never pushed a PR campaign in person before arriving at the Wall; now the king courts his subjects, rather than sitting alone and loudly demanding the reverse. And he does it because he trusts Jon, and he trusts the North. I get the sense that, despite the nightfires, he quite likes the cold, or at least that particular Northern cold, the genuine article described in the opening pages of the first book…the grey wind.

(Any excuse to drop in my favorite line in fantasy: “And Lyra thrilled at those times with the same deep thrill she’d felt all her life on hearing the word North.” Always capitalize North, especially the Stark North.)

But it’s the idea of the Stark in Winterfell that attracts Stannis the most, shining a light on Stark mythos in a way he can appreciate, even admire. Stannis seeks to put Jon in Ned’s seat for reasons beyond military alliance. The context of their conversation (atop the Wall, ruminating on the War for the Dawn, Melisandre standing by as an avatar of ancient magic) reminds us that the Stark’s paramount position in the North is partially mystical as well as political, that the warmth of Winterfell is a slightly cosmic property as well as a physical one, and that, as with Harrenhal, the sheer tectonic weight of history on an ancient place makes its presence known within the flickering of mortal lives. Stannis is offering Jon a place in a powerfully long history, in large part because he feels it belongs to Jon in a way it wouldn’t to Tyrion or Roose or Arnolf Karstark. The latter becomes the king’s choice for Winterfell after Jon is elected Lord Commander, because Stannis is surprised and hurt by Jon’s refusal, makes no attempt whatsoever to hide it, and so gives the castle to a man whose nephew and lord betrayed Robb…a man who carries Stark around as part of his name, like he could give it away. It’s a decision designed to wound Jon, as is referring to Sansa as “Lady Lannister.” This could all come across as abusive and is unquestionably petty beyond description, but Stannis is at his most lovable when he treats people like furniture he can mutter his grievances at; Jon, to his credit, grasps this almost immediately, and adjusts his expectations accordingly. 

“His Grace is growing fond of you.”
“I can tell. He only threatened to behead me twice.”

But they aren’t truly sundered, as the cold war between Stannis and the Starks finally ends in my single favorite moment in the series, one which (as is so often the case with both Stannis and Jon) relies on our willingness to interpret and visualize subtle-to-the-point-of-nonexistent emotional cues, to be aggressively empathetic.

“Can I have his boots?” asked Owen the Oaf, as Janos Slynt’s head went rolling across the muddy ground. “They’re almost new, those boots. Lined with fur.”
Jon glanced back at Stannis. For an instant, their eyes met. Then the king nodded, and went back inside his tower.

Everything conveyed in the space between their eyes is left unsaid, by them and GRRM. Like a pre-60s cinematographer tilting his lens away from the soon-to-sex, the author respects their privacy (just as he did by never taking us inside the moment when Davos allowed Stannis to cut into him, an early echo of the future king’s respect for Northern traditions). We can, perhaps, easily project what Stannis was expressing to Jon in that moment: respect, understanding, one single drop of misty-eyed paternal affection, and of course gratitude for the honor of watching Janos Slynt’s head roll across the ground, a justice denied by Robert (and Littlefinger). But what was in Jon’s eyes?

Visions of Winterfell (and his family, and Ygritte, all that he’s lost) begin to invade Jon’s mind beginning in his sixth Dance chapter, when he learns that the person he loves most in the world is being given to a monster worse than Joffrey. Or, at least, that’s when GRRM shows us the visions; but I’ve always imagined that, for an instant, Jon saw Ned standing in front of the king’s tower, Ned watching him do justice as he himself did in the very beginning of the series, Ned alive and proud and ready to explain, explain himself, explain everything, so Jon could finally stop dreaming of Winterfell even when awake.

They both know it should be Ned standing there, as Stannis feels it should’ve always been him there next to Robert. What Jon and his king share in that moment is the understanding that what they’ve lost is gone, irrevocably, and they’re both likely to lose more, but they’re glad to have met along the way; they’re happy for the melancholy, switched-lives fate (the “bittersweet ending”) arranged for them by the Author. And all the king can do is nod, and go back into his tower, because he’s Stannis, and he’s been crying where no one can see him since Proudwing.

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ladycyprus

ASOIAF Reader’s Guide to Sansan

A companion to my ASOIAF Reader Resources post

For Scad at davosfingers.

Web Resources

Sansa Stark Meta

Sandor Clegane Meta

Quintessential Sansan Meta

Podcasts

Link to updated post for reblogging (x)

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ladycyprus

ASOIAF Reader Resources

Web Resources

Podcasts

Maps

Meta Blogs

updated 10/26/15, link to updated post

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Marriage and Sex in Westeros

Sansa is extremely marriage-able to the point that her value on the marriage market is her personal curse. Sandor, meanwhile, brings literally nothing, or less than nothing, to the political marriage market: no dowry, no name, no lands, a bad reputation, etc etc.

Is there any chance that SanSan decide to rebelliously marry under an idealized notion of romantic cosmic-soulmates love without having previously fucked? All the sophisticates in the land fuck before marriage–even precious perfect Jon Snow, and possibly even precious perfect Ned Stark (if the rumors about him and Ashara Dayne are true).

Wouldn’t it be something if Sandor Clegane of all people, whom we previously assumed was a wholly lawless maniac, was like, “No madam, I do decline to engage in carnal relations without benefit of marriage. You are too fancy and I am too blackhearted, and if I bang you into the headboard, it will be only after we take the sacred oaths that sanctify our bond in eyes of the thing greater than ourselves.”

We know he’s the most possessive, territorial SOB in all the land. I could believe that he’d personally decided long ago that even if she offered up her body that he would declare “I want the whole fucking thing or nothing all, because I will kill everyone that ever lived if I get part of you and not all of you or if I get you for a while but then they come to take you away and give you to a Dornish prince or the Night King, etc etc.”

GMMR enjoys building up expectations about characters and then demolishing them and reconstructing them elseways. It’d be something if the only oath Sandor Clegane ever swore in his life was a marriage vow to Sansa Stark.

Okay first of all… LMFAO @ that perfectly canon Sandor dialogue ;-)

Secondly… Bear in mind that Sandor has already sworn an oath to Sansa. Of sorts. Twice in fact…

“A hound will die for you, but never lie to you.“

“I could keep you safe… No one would hurt you again, or I’d kill them.”

No, not officially official, no weirwood present to witness it or anything, but as good of an oath as Sandor Clegane gets. So a marriage vow is more or less moot, and it’s not something I feel like he would actively pursue. I think he would consider himself already bound by oath to her, marriage or not, and she may very well feel the same. If marriage DOES happen (I’m agnostic!), there will probably be some extenuating circumstances involved… like, say, a wolf pup on the way…? ;-)

As for the “Sandor has nothing to offer” thing, that’s something that can surely be rectified by Sansa herself if she does indeed end up in some sort of position of power (which she likely will). I can see her and the Starks rewarding Sandor for his service to them (and Sansa and Arya in particular) by granting him new lands in the North (like they did for the Manderlys) with which to reestablish his house and redeem his family name. Along with that, a “political” marriage to Sansa Stark to join the two houses particularly. Maybe even he establishes an entirely new house from his union with Sansa, a cadet branch like the Karstarks. (Clegstarks? Starkanes?)

So yeah, I think premarital lovin’ is not only possible but probable. I am actually more convinced of that than the marriage itself. ;-)

I mean, they’re definitely already symbolically married, what with those “oaths” of protection from Sandor and the donning of his cloaks, but I tend to see those things as potentially being foreshadowing of an actual wedding. I don’t think those beehive shaped huts that only married people can stay in on the QI were mentioned for nothing though… I also don’t think GRRM’s words along the lines of (paraphrasing) “the Hound is dead… and Sansa may be dead too. There is only Alayne Stone…” should be discounted in this issue. That issue being, as long as Sansa is married to Tyrion, she cannot marry anyone… but Sansa has taken on a new persona in Alayne Stone, a bastard girl who may well be able to marry where she wills and I don’t think that, if given the chance, she won’t pursue her dream of true love and marriage if given the chance (she’s also a religious traditionalist after all… sex before marriage would make her feel bad).  

I also think that after having married Sandor, and consummating that marriage, under the name of Alayne Stone… duty will call and she’s going to have to return to being Sansa Stark and all that comes along with that name. I think this may well be a major conflict in their relationship in the last book and also in Sansa’s character arc (she has to face her role in the game head on because she is already a pretty major piece whether she likes it or not). Returning to being Sansa Stark with the understanding that her marriage to Sandor could be easily set aside would be a big struggle for her… and I think she will later find out that their marriage has indeed been fruitful… (Also this would totally also round out her narrative parallels to her father… Choice of love or duty in war and ending up with a “bastard” child…).

Of course, this is just me theorizing… 

Yes, that could certainly be the “bittersweet ending” GRRM is always talking about… And it’s something I have considered often – that they will reunite while she is Alayne and consummate their luuuurve but will not be able to stay together for whatever reason(s)… quite possibly for those you mentioned. And likely be left with a little “souvenir” to remember him by… What I am less convinced of, though, is WHY Sansa, as Alayne, would choose to marry Sandor? JUST to have sex? LOL… I mean, I GUESS, but like I said, I don’t think she’ll give too much of a shit about that. I too am side-eying those honeycomb huts on the QI, but are we saying that Sansa would marry Sandor just so they can co-habitate on the QI for a minute? Seems like a great length to go through when they can just sneak off to an empty cottage somewhere, LOL…

She’d marry him for lurveeee! Lol but seriously, she’s a teenager in a medieval world, of course the thrill and passion of her first love affair would make her want to get married. That’s what people do in the great love stories! They fall passionately in love and run off to get married. Hell, in the olden days (by which I mean only as long ago as my grandmothers’ era) that was the usual for young people getting married… they got married young for lurrvee (premarital sex was frowned on and kids wanted to do it… also young love… and wanting to play house… also birth control was pretty iffy and you didn’t want to get pregnant out of wedlock). Sansa has been wanting to get married to her true love since day one, when she actually gets to experience it of course she’d wanted to marry him! Also… Sandor has totally secretly always wanted a lady wife… 

Hahahaha awwwww, yes I can see that from Sansa’s POV, but Sandor, being older and wiser(?) in this situation, can you really see him being as impulsive? Like, yes, I agree he would secretly love to have a wife and family, but he’s also pretty pragmatic and I can’t honestly picture him agreeing to a shotgun wedding, even if it’s with Sansa. And especially not if he has any inkling that they can’t be together forever… I dunno, I could be totally wrong, only GRRM knows for sure… WHEN THE FUCK IS TWOW COMING OUT?????

IDK if Sandor is much more mature than Sansa when it comes to matters of the heart tbh… probably less…

And I think that, either way, he’d sense the fleeting opportunity to be with the woman he loves, for her to be his wife, his family, and he’d take it! Of course he’ll be pissed as hell when she then tells him… “sorry, fam… got to go off and be a highborn Stark of Winterfell again…” (she’ll be nicer about it than that… I’m sure) but if offered the chance, Sandor would definitely want to marry her too. 

And seriously… when is TWOW coming out…? Can we get an update at least?

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eyesofmist

@maidenoftheforestlight!

This is how I see it too. For Sandor, Sansa is like a dream come true, because he is as much of a dreamer as she is. Sandor is still the boy who wanted to be a knight but learned the hard way the world is awful and dreams are only dreams. He is a disillusioned romantic but never got rid of his true self, not even Gregor burning his face off or the Lannisters using him for years to do their dirty work could erase who Sandor is deep inside.

He hates knights because they are not the real thing and mocks Sansa at first because he still can’t believe she is a “real” lady, that she is genuine.

Every knight wants his lady and Sandor may say he despises knighthood but he is the most honorable and brave man Sansa has known apart from his father. He protects her, loves her and respects her like no knights or princes ever did and she has already realised this is so. Also, protection, love and respect is what husbands promise their wives in their marriage vows.

Sansa has started to realise that Sandor did for her what knights should have done although he is not a knight. However, he doesn’t want to take any oaths, not as a knight, a KG or a monk on the QI. Despite this, he pledged himself to Sansa as @kateofthecanals said, twice, because these vows of honesty and protection to her are the only ones he is willing to say.

As a former idealist, he dreams about love and a family. This becomes clear when he hesitates before accepting the honor to become a KG, and Sansa is the one to realise this in one of her chapters.

George knows very well what he does. It’s not just a casual anecdote to tell the readers that Sandor said he had no lands or wife to forsake, and to make Sansa witness this. This is a brilliant example of how you do characterization damn well.

This man is offered the greatest honor in the realm and he hesitates, because what he wants is a woman and a home. This means a wife and a family because both Sansa and Sandor think like medieval people. For them, this implies marriage, sacred vows. I know how old-fashioned this sounds, so alien to our modern world. It sounds medieval but this is exactly what their mentality is like. So I agree Sandor wants to marry Sansa, that he would do anything to marry her and would never dream of becoming her lover but her rightful husband.

I guess he could sleep with another type of woman, but not with his “lady”. He is like a “courtly love” knight admiring his lady from afar and never dreaming of sleeping with her for real. But I hope there will be more than this love from afar for them because, as George said, now they are just Sandor and Alayne, a bastard-born girl. The unsurmountable distance between them is not there any more and we know what they both want.

The question is how long it will take them to realise they both want the same thing and that it isn’t impossible any more. We’ll see what happens when their paths cross again.

I also think Sandor does have something to offer. In the middle ages, warriors who proved their great courage and worth in battle were give lands, titles and advantageous marriages as a reward for their deeds. Their lords or kings paid them for their services this way. In times of conquest a man could raise in the feudal system status quo if he was a great warrior. Sandor thought of this when he wanted to serve Rob and to be made a lordling. Why, why did a man who despised lords and knights want to become one?

For Sansa, he was willing to change for Sansa. He wanted to rescue her from the Lannisters but also to be worthy of her when they met again. All these things mean that if she loved him back, which is like an impossible dream in his eyes, he would ask her to marry him, not to become his secret lover.

I also think this marriage will happen, probably before a sacred weirwood tree, because symbolically it has already taken place, or at least it has been heavily foreshadowed. It may end sadly or with a bittersweet taste, but I think it will happen, that it is what consistent story telling requires. The ending is another matter, that is a mystery.

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Anonymous asked:

I've seen some people say that this "I'll have a song from you, whether you will it or no." is a rape threat. Do you agree? To be honest it's indeed rather squicky.

No.  That assessment does not hold up when you look at the whole picture.  The line is certainly written to make us look askance at it and we’re meant to be critical of it in the sense we’re invited to examine it more closely.  That’s not what I would say his accusers are doing though by cherry-picking lines out of their full context.  I do hope you agree that even if a thing is inappropriate, discomforting, cringe-worthy, squicky, problematic, unseemly, or not purely wholesome, it doesn’t necessarily warrant conflating it to the worst possible interpretations or characterizations.  When we see this phrase pop up again later and how it becomes actualized in the story, it’s meaning takes on another surprise twist that could not be further from sexual assault.               

But first, we really need to look at the whole chapter, which is Sansa II, ACOK.  The themes will include truth versus lies, truth in lies, reawakened idealism, the connection between true knights and fools, and GRRM’s version of the drunken confessions trope.  I would say the chapter can be summed up in two ways:

“A fool and a knight?” said Jonquil. “I have never heard of such a thing.”

“Sweet lady,” said Florian, “all men are fools, and all men are knights, where women are concerned.“  – The Hedge Knight, from the play Florian and Jonquil.

In vino veritas.  In wine, truth.    

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eyesofmist

@bluelemonsforever , I wanted to tell you how much I love this meta. It’s absolutely brilliant and I can only nod and agree with you. That’s how you read their story the way George intended.

I’d like to ask you ( and anyone who has any ideas on the matter) why do you think she lost her direwolf and he lost his hound persona? What does this mean?

Now neither of them are using the identity they were born with (she is Alayne Stone and he is a novice at the QI.

“What do dogs do to wolves?” One answer is that they mate. Did they lose something so that they could find something else, this something else being each other?

Both Lady and the Hound are dead but the man and woman Sansa and Sandor are long for each other. Sandor’s wild side was the Hound and he is now a man, not a beast, but won’t feel whole and complete without his other half, his soul mate.

Is his soulmate a girl who is no longer a lady ( Lady is just as dead as the Hound) but a bastard born brave young woman?

Only together as one will they ever feel whole and they will mate one day because that’s what dogs do to wolves, that’s Sandor’s “wild dog” nature and he has the ferocity she likes in a man.

Some readers have said she is doomed without her direwolf, that she will die, but I think she found her other half in Sandor and she needed to lose her wolf just like he had to let the Hound die to become one with her.

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Anonymous asked:

If sandor won the Hand's Tourney why didn't he crown a queen of love & beauty ?

I mean… why would he? Putting aside the fact that Sandor hates pomp and pageantry, thinks knighthood is a sham, and could barely process the crowd cheering for him, he’d also just nearly been murdered by his brother AGAIN. Under those circumstances, plus Sandor’s personality in general, can you really picture him doing something like that?

Besides, it’s implied in the text that Sansa was his QoL&B by default and I think it’s fair to just leave it at that. ;-)

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Agreed. There is only one person there he would even consider remotely close to a true lady; however, he knew he scared her the night before and treated her harshly. He would assume the absolute worst reaction even if he saw Sansa cheering. The thought could have popped into his head like “oh shit” after it sank in that he’s been declared the champion. He knows the expected traditions. I think he would rather eat the crown right there than deal with the possibility of seeing a horrified look on her face upon presenting it to her in front of all those people. Let’s be real, at that point Sansa was genuinely happy for him, but she wouldn’t have taken being given the crown by him well. She would probably manage a stilted, cool, polite thank you. It would be humiliating because it does have a certain chivalric romantic connotation. The cruel jokes write themselves. Better to just skulk off and brood about it. lol

Yes, and let’s not forget that Sandor knows that Sansa has a little crushie-poo on Loras (duh, it’s one of the reasons he jumped in to defend him); if anything, Sandor probably thinks that Sansa is cheering for Loras for being so gallant, and she would be utterly horrified and disappointed if she was Sandor’s QoL&B instead of Loras’s (and, at this point in the story, he wouldn’t have been completely wrong).

It’s so pure that he defends Loras for her.  He’s found a true lady and he’ll be damned if he sees her little heart crushed.  

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eyesofmist

And it’s too early in the story to show so openly that she is “his lady” and he, her brave honourable “knight”, although both of them are wearing the same colours (green dress and olive green mantle) and she is looking at him “moist eyed and eager”.

He won her father’s tourney, called the tourney of “ the Hand”, so it’s implied very cleverly that he’s won Sansa’s hand.

I think the first hint that he is going to become “her man” is when he placed his hands on her shoulders on the King’s Road and she thought that he was her father. He was going to become her protector, her only proyector in KL after Ned died and I bet he will be for life.

In a medieval society girls were under their father’s protection and then their husband’s. George is suggesting those hands are protective, not creepy or threatening, and she can feel it. She senses Sandor Clegane “wouldn’t let any harm come to her”.

Then we have the wonderful scene where he escorts her following Joff’s orders. So her prince doesn’t escort his betrothed to her place like he should but she does get another guy taking her home after the “party”, because that was a great party for her. And she is very nice to him, she isn’t sullen and quiet because her prince left her and told “another guy” to take her home, she’s nice and courteous to this man everybody fears and shuns.

I think that night he was trapped, unavoidably drawn to her, because he felt the need to tell her about his darkest most tragic moment and she took his side and understood his pain like no one did before.

The boy that never got justice and protection from his own father and was honed as a weapon by the Lannisters and used by them for their dirty work got empathy and understanding from a little lady, that same boy who was playing with a wooden knight when his dreams were shattered.

He didn’t stand a chance, of course he saved Loras for her but also because that was the right thing to do and he was already her true “knight”. True knighs must protect the weak, it is known.

Sandor was not pretty but was the only true knight on the field that day, the only one who faced the Mountain to save Loras. Not even Loras was honourable because he cheated by riding a mare in heat.

Sandor was the only true “knight” there then. He wore his lady’s colours (green, the colour of spring), fought the monster and won the day in her father’s (the Hand’s) tourney.

She got her non-knight, the one that “saved her all the same” during the riot, the one that wants her songs whereas Tyrion said songs did no good to her, the one that is honest to her and would never lay a hand on her or kiss her without her consent, unlike Littlefinger. The one who wants her for herself and not her claim, the one capable of really loving her.

So neither of them knew by then (because they are the most unlikely pair) that she was his only queen of love and beauty and he, her brave honourable knight, her true knight.

All this happened before our eyes as readers but it was delightfully subtle, like everything in this romance. Everything is a hint for the future, not a reality for the present. If he had crowned Sansa as the queen of love and beauty this romance would no longer be subtle.

She was already the queen of his heart, though, his impossible unattainable dream for so many reasons.

But what if it isn’t impossible? He won the tourney of the Hand, didn’t he?

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eyesofmist

Possible song references in Alayne’s chapter.

In Dunk & Egg novellas, while Dunk is digging the grave for the hedge knight whose squire he’s been until the man’s death, he decides to go to Ashford, where there’ll be a tournament, and take part in it although he is not a knight. While digging, he remembers how the old man sang a well-known song on their way to Ashford and this song was about a man going to Gulltown to see a fair maid. He changed the word Gulltown for Asford while he was singing, as Dunk recalls.

There is an interesting theory suggesting this Asford tourney may foreshadow what will happen to Sansa’s suitors. Follow the link if you want to read this theory.

Lady Ashford ,in whose honour the tourney is celebrated, is a girl of thirteen,like Sansa,and there are five champions for her,from the same houses as the suitors Sansa’s had so far (except for Valarr Targaryen):

Ashford champions:

  1. Lyonel Baratheon
  2. Leo Tyrell
  3. Tybolt Lannister
  4. Humfrey Hardyng
  5. Prince Valarr Targaryen

Sansa’s suitors in A Song of Ice and Fire:

  1. Sansa’s first betrothed to Joffrey Baratheon
  2. Sansa’s then planned to be wed to Willas Tyrell
  3. Sansa’s married to Tyrion Lannister
  4. Sansa’s now being betrothed to Harry Hardyng

If this theory is right, Harry Hardyng will be toast quite soon, and so will be Aegon Targaryen if he is meant to be her Targaryen suitor, because Lady Asford never gets to marry any of her champions and they all have early tragic deaths. As for the girl, the readers never get to know what happened to her, she is never mentioned again.

Dunk, the non-knight who will leventually become a KG and who happens to be as tall as a tree, appears digging a grave in “The Hedge Knight” and he remembers a well-known song:

The spring rains had softened theground, so Dunk had no trouble digging the grave. He chose a spot onthe western slope of a low hill, for the old man had always loved towatch the sunset. “Another day done,” he would sigh,“and who knows what the morrow will bring us, eh, Dunk?” Well, one morrow had brought rains thatsoaked them to the bones, and the one after had brought wet gustywinds, and the next a chill. By the fourth day the old man was too weak to ride. And now he was gone. Only a few days past, he had been singing as they rode, the old song about going to Gulltown to see a fair maid, but instead of Gulltown he’d sung of Ashford. Off to Ashford to see the fair maid, heighho, heigh-ho, Dunk thought miserably as he dug.

In “Storm of Swords”, Tom of Sevenstrings sings the same song when Arya meets him and he is accompanied by a very tall man with a deep voice called Lem Lemoncloak. Why Lemoncloak? Has this name anything to do with Sansa, who loves lemoncakes? Perhaps,because later on this man will wear the Hound’s helm and adopt the Hound’s persona. In Storm of Swords we can hear the same song Dunk mentions while digging the grave,but we can hear more of it:

The song came drifting up the river from somewhere beyond the little rise to the east. “Off to Gulltown to see the fair maid, heigh-ho, heigh-ho … ” Arya rose, carrots dangling from her hand. It sounded like the singer was coming up the river road. Over among the cabbages, Hot Pie had heard it too, to judge by the look on his face. Gendry had gone to sleep in the shade of the burned cottage, and was past hearing anything. “I’ll steal a sweet kiss with the point of my blade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho.” She thought she heard a woodharp too, beneath the soft rush of the river.

This is supposed to be a really well-known song and it is about a man that goes to Gulltown to see a fair maid and get a kiss from her with the point of his blade.This is how it continues:

“I’ll make her my love and we’ll rest in the shade, heigh-ho, heigh-ho.” The song swelled louder with every word.

So, despite the blade, stealing the kiss is supposed to be romantic as the guy makes the maid his love in the end and they rest together.

Well, in the new Sansa chapter from TWOW that we’ve had the chance to read there is going to be a tourney although there won’t be seven champions but eight. In Asford tourney,seven knights defended Dunk’s innocence and saved him from a horrible punishment. Seven is the number of the KG knights as well.

It attracted my attention that there are a lot of references to Gulltown in this new chapter and we also meet a boy trying to woo Myranda who is from Gulltown. This town is mentioned and Sansa,who is now Alayne,remembers that she is supposed to be from Gulltown,born there and not in any other town or city,although she is Littlefinger’s daughter and Petyr is from the Fingers.

Why is Alayne from Gulltown? Perhaps because the fair maid in the song is from Gulltown and that song is used as a reference to her?

Sansa is also related to the song of the Bear and the Maiden Fair because the first time it is sung in ASoIaF is during Sansa’s meal with the Tyrell women. Sansa is  a fair maid and the author seems to relate her to songs where there is a fair maid/maiden who gets a lover. They are both songs about love and sex,as if her destiny was not an arraged marriage but a love story with someone unexpected (think of the hairy bear,LOL).

Well, in this new chapter we get to know there will be a tourney at the Gates of the Moon and Sansa meets this pimply young man from Gulltown with whom she has this conversation:

…the pimply knight hopped up and said, “Ser Ossifer speaks truly, you are the most beautiful maid in all the Seven Kingdoms.” It might have been a sweeter courtesy had he not addressed it to her chest.     “And have you seen all those maids yourself, ser?” Alayne asked him. “You are young to be so widely travelled.”     He blushed, which only made his pimples look angrier.  “No, my lady.   I am from Gulltown.”      And I am not, though Alayne was born there. She would need to be careful around this one. “I remember Gulltown fondly,” she told him, with a smile as vague as it was pleasant.

The man who stole a kiss from a fair maid with the point of his knife seems to hint at Sandor because he is supposed to have taken a song and a kiss before leaving Sansa only a bloody cloak, or at least this is what Sansa remembers.

There is still another coincidence that may not be a coincidence at all, because we have two extremely tall non-knights (Dunk and Sandor) digging graves on slopes. For one of them, it’s easy to dig as the soil is dump, whereas for the other (the QI gravedigger), diggings seems much harder. Anyway, we have two men who tower over most knights, who are not knights and who will be part of the KG at some point in their lives. Two men who hesitate before accepting the post because becoming a KG prevents a man from having a wife. Two men who appear digging graves in very similar places at some point in their stories. They have something else in common: Dunk remembers a song about stealing a kiss with the point of a knife and will later get a kiss and cut a long red-haired braid from the Red Widow drawing a knife on her. As for Sandor, we all remember that notorious unkiss and how he drew his dagger on Sansa while the green fire filled the sky.

Now, Sansa remembers a kiss he gave her as if the situation had been romantic even though it seemed scary as it happened. The Red Widow loved Dunk and didn’t seem very scared when he drew his knife. He cut her braid to remember her by, much like Sandor,who stole a song from Sansa at knife point. Perhaps Westerosi idea of what is romantic is a bit different from ours, LOL. Sandor is scary but Dunk is not. However, what they do to their red-headed ladies is not all that different.

Saying that Alayne is from Gulltown and relating her to a maid or maiden in a song feels like something George would do too. She could have been from any other town, especially if she is Littlefinger’s daughter, as he is not from the Vale. It wasn’t even necessary to say where she is from. And before Sansa says she is from Gulltown,the pimply boy says she is the most beautiful MAID in the Seven Kingdoms.

He says maid instead of maiden,as if hinting at the song about the stolen kiss. I know it’s impossible to notice this if you don’t remember how Tom Sevenstrings sang it or how Dunk mentioned it in the HK but if you put all this together it makes sense. Sansa is the fair maid and there will be a tourney, like the one in Asford Dunk went to. Torneys are usually very important in ASoIaF so, this one will probably be important too, but they also bring unexpected consequences, so I wonder what this one will bring.

I have also found this information on Westeros.org:

Dunk heard “The Bear and the Maiden Fair” performed at the tourney at Ashford Meadow in 209 AC.[2] It was also sung by Lord Frey’s nephew at the Whitewallstourney.[3]

I think Gulltown is hinting at SanSan again and perhaps Sandor will turn up at the tourney, although it may be too soon for them to meet again if the chapter we’ve read is Sansa’s first chapter in TWOW.

When you read the chapter again, have a look at how many times Gulltown is mentioned, about eight or so in a few pages, and it is supposed to be Alayne’s hometown,like the fair maid’s.

The Bear and the Maiden Fair is sung several times in the books too:

The song is sung by Abel for Barbrey Dustin during a meal at Winterfell.
In Meereen Tyrion Lannister realizes that Ser Jorah Mormont is doomed if purchased by Zahrina. Tyrion manages to get the slave overseer Nurse to convince Yezzan zo Qaggaz to purchase Jorah by lying and telling Nurse that Jorah is part of their show - the bear and the maiden fair. Jorah is the bear, Penny is the maiden, and Tyrion is the brave knight who rescues her. During their bondage Tyrion notes that Jorah has not adapted well. When called upon to play the bear and carry off the maiden fair, he has been sullen and uncooperative, shuffling lifelessly through his paces when he deigns to take part in their mummery at all.  Wiki of Ice and Fire

We have Jorah as the Bear and Tyrion as the brave knight saving the maid (Penny) but what they do is a mummery,it is called a mummery and it’s all wrong because Jorah isn’t interested in his role and Tyrion is only playing a role,what’s more he plays the role of a knight although the bear is the one to rescue the girl and lick the honey on her hair in the song. Sansa and Tyrion’s forced marriage could also be considered a mummery and her bear is still to come and get her because it is known that the maiden fair goes away with a hairy bear, not with a knight.

Is this another hint indicating that Tyrion won’t have Sansa’s honey but Sandor will? Who knows? If Martin chose this song for them to represent in there mummer’s show there is probably a reason, don’t you think?

If the maid in both songs is Sansa,then Sandor must be the bear that rescues her and licks the honey on her hair and also the man who steals a kiss from her with the point of his knife to turn her later into his love.

Or perhaps the songs are not used by the author to foreshadow future events?

 I think they are,though, IMHO.

I also agree with other users here that have said Lothor Brune’s character is a sort of surrogate Sandor Cleagane in Alayne’s chapters, so I really disagree with those who say, Elio García included, that there are no references to Sandor in this chapter. Anyway, I don’t think George will necessarily write references to him in all Alayne’s chapters. There have been a lot of them in previous books because they were separated, as if to prevent the readers from forgetting their bond, but if their encounter is approaching perhaps there won’t be so many references as they won’t be necesssary any more. 

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Fandom: Stannis Baratheon, a cold unfeeling man,
Stannis Baratheon: *rehashes life story, insecurities, and relationship problems to Davos for 87 straight pages, simultaneously holds 18 different grudges while making new ones, initiates fights with birds, destroys people with pure unfiltered sass, regularly brandishes lightsaber at people for Dramatic Effect, signs documents in own blood like a goddamn vampire*
Me: are we reading the same character
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me at Target in 10 years: excuse me *reads nametag* xhir, where’s your restroom?

xhir: what are your pronouns

me: I’m a woman

xhir: *staring blankly*

me: I’m femme-aligned

xhir: oh, it’s toward the front of the store past the gender neutral communal piss trough

me: ok

I walk past the piss trough and through a door that says ‘nonbinary femmes’ and it’s just an empty room with a drain in the middle and one urinal

a man walks in as I’m pissing on the floor and shoves me out of the way

zhehr: I’m shartgender and you as a femme-aligned entity have privilege over me so move out of the way cuz my genderqueer bussy’s about to explode

The gender police arrest me outside

reblogging this absolute classic

@cocksmasher69 this has truly inspired me. The next time some gendershit asks my pronouns I will say: I am an innate titty possessing, baby shitting, vulva queen. Uwu 😊😊💖😘💖❤️💖😘💖❤️💖😘💖😘💖☺️😇😔👶☺️

Dhshfjsnejfnsbeushfjrjfjabjxsjdjqjd

this is so beautiful it makes me cry 

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jackthebard

Just remember. There is no such thing as a fake geek girl. There are only fake geek boys. Science fiction was invented by a woman.

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sourcedumal

Specifically a teenage girl. You know, someone who would be a part of the demographic that some of these boys are violently rejecting.

Isaac Asimov.

yo mary shelley wrote frankenstein in 1818 and isaac asimov was born in 1920 so you kinda get my point

If you want to push it back even further Margaret Cavendish, the duchess of Newcastle (1623-1673) wrote The Blazing World in 1666, about a young woman who discovers a Utopian world that can only be accessed via the North Pole - oft credited as one of the first scifi novels

Women have always been at the forefront of literature, the first novel (what we would consider a novel in modern terms) was written by a woman (Lady Muraskai’s the Tale of Genji in the early 1000s) take your snide “Isaac Asimov” reblogs and stick it

even in terms of male scifi authors, asimov was predated by Jules Verne, HG Wells, George Orwell, you could have even cited Poe or Jonathan Swift has a case but Asimov?

PbbBFFTTBBBTBTTBBTBTTT so desperate to discredit the idea of Mary Shelly as the mother of modern science fiction you didn’t even do a frickin google search For Shame

And if you want to go back even further, the first named, identified author in history was Enheduanna of Akkad, a Sumerian high priestess.

Kinda funny, considering this Isaac Asimov quote on the subject:

Mary Shelley was the first to make use of a new finding of science which she advanced further to a logical extreme, and it is that which makes Frankenstein the first true science fiction story.
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deathcomes4u

Even Isaac Asimov ain’t having none of your shit, not even posthumously.

You know what else was invented by women? Masked vigilantes, the precursor to the modern superhero. Baroness Emma Orczy wrote The Scarlet Pimpernel in 1905. The character would later inspire better known masked vigilantes such as Zorro and Batman.

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bettieleetwo

Stick that in your international pipe and smoke it

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la-knight

I have literally been telling people this for over a year.

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athenadark

the first extended prose piece - ie a novel, was not, as many male scholars will shout, Don Quixote (1605) but The Tale of Genji (1008) written by a woman

The first autobiography ever written in English is also attributed to a woman, The Book of Margery Kempe (1430s).

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ladynorbert

The day may come when I find this post and do not reblog it, but it is not this day.

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