so let's make a mess, lioness.

i can’t tell if dick grayson or jason todd are a more accurate depiction of the female experience and it’s driving me mad

do batman fans know that actual female comic book characters exist

It's because Dick is the Eldest Daughter and Jason is the Frigded Woman whose experiences are constantly invalidated

Actually, no.

You don’t get more eldest daughter than Harper Row.

The Fridged woman? Barbara Gordon (who only escaped it thanks to Kim Yale) and Stephanie Brown (whose fans have to constantly rally and scratch and fight to force DC to allow her to even show up as the support in somebody else’s story).

Other bat family characters who have stories which SPECIFICALLY encapsulate other experiences women have:

•Helena Bertinelli (survivor’s guilt, horrifically CSA, of struggling with anger and rage despite being told it’s not acceptable)

•Cassandra Cain (passive suicide ideation, depression, living with a mother who does not understand you despite you being incredibly similar, trying to copy other women because you’re not sure what femininity is but you’re sure you’re doing it wrong)

•Stephanie Brown (of always feeling like you’re the worst, that there’s some big joke on you that everybody else sees, teen pregnancy, on being preyed upon by an older man in your teens, a distant mother too heavily struggling with herself to help you, a violent angry father who hates you and that mother for bringing you into the world, in being told that ‘that doesn’t belong to you’ because of your femininity, being harmed by a man your family trusted, not feeling safe around men even when you know they’re good, your emotions and story always being centred around those you, being forgotten and sidelined because you’re seen as the disposable one)

•Selina Kyle (the experience of growing up poor and marginalized, in having to step up to look after your sister, in caring for your community even when it seeks to destroy you, in knowing just how disposable men in your life see you, in being blamed when you have to protect yourself)

•Kate Kane(when your hopes and dreams are ripped from you because you are a woman- a lesbian- and somebody else has decided that wrong, of presenting and existing as openly queer in a space which often defines women as a status symbol of the men they’re with, of losing your mother young and feeling like there’s a piece of you gone with her, of existing in a male dominated world and being told you’re play acting as one of them for being yourself, of being deified by people who do not know you- who still wish you harm and won’t listen even as they pretend to uplift you, of being your father’s rock and trying to hold him above the same waves that crumble of pieces of you, of being a sister who would do anything to save her sister)

•Leslie Thompkins (helping raise and love a baby boy as best you can and watching him turn dark and angry despite your best efforts, of trying to find a way around the violence and heartbreak around you and desperately failing because you can only do so much, of being the shoulder for everybody to cry on but having nobody willing to support you)

And there’s more. Women, sometimes written by men, but often saved by real life wonderful women such as Kim Yale and the fans who rallied constantly for Steph and Cass until DC had no choice but to bring them back. There’s nothing wrong in reading your experiences and life into any character, but ignoring the women whose stories actively engage with their gender for some canon cis het dude written by some cis het dude is wild.

i need to hunt Tom King for sport

Alrighty I've sat with this for a day and now wanna actually talk about it. The page in question that prompted me making this post was, of course, from Wonder Woman (2023) #5. And I think part of why I had such a gut reaction to it is because it really just reminded me of a notorious page from Teen Titans (2003) #25.

Now, these two pages are different and I do think the Wonder Woman page is definitely preferable of the two—but the common factor that just stands out to me is 'having Cassie talk about her tomboy past in a way that makes it clear that's NOT who she is anymore, that treats it as something she grew out of, treating the fact that she has moved away from it as as a good thing/an improvement:

In the Teen Titans page, it's framed as a 'good thing' through all the negative talk and descriptors of her past self—mocking her own old fashion sense, her 'bad hair' and saying she 'wasn't very pretty'. This page acts like this newer more girly presentation of herself is somehow obviously better—not that it fixed everything because some people still call her a fake... but she acts embarrassed of who she used to be even just in this internal monologue.

In the Wonder Woman page, instead it's being framed as a 'good thing' because it's a change attributed to Diana's influence rather than, like, society's—that meeting Diana allowed Cassie to indulge in girly things she'd previously stayed away from, that this was a positive impact meeting Diana had on her.

Now, a slight but relevant sidebar—debate about Cassie and how she's been portrayed on the tomboy to girly-girl spectrum is nothing new, it's been happening forever. As a general I thing I don't have many positive feelings towards Cassie's creator John Byrne, but I do want to highlight something he said once about her:

The change in Cassie's depiction, historically, came about largely because of real life societal pressures and opinions about what a 'Wonder Girl' should look like—which as much as I hate that Teen Titans page I posted above... Cassie talking about how people saw her as a 'fake' and 'pretender' speaks pretty true to the actual real life situation. There very much so were real life people that didn't think this character suited Wonder Girl because she wasn't depicted as pretty/girly enough. And when she was changed in the comics, she became more popular. Go figure.

But that was ~20 years ago, and while it's not like misogyny in comics has gone away (lmao) the general landscape of media is definitely different in several ways than it was then—and at least in the 'talking about DC comics' social media sphere I see somewhat regular discussion and debate about the state of Cassie. Trying to reconcile the girl she originally was with the girl who she became in later iterations.

Especially because of how even MORE extreme the New 52 had gone with her—with not just girly-fying her but also wildly over-sexualizing her. And while that's not the version of the character we're seeing anymore, I think putting screenshots like these side by side and saying 'this was supposed to be the same character at age 14 and then age 16' made a lot of people go 'hang on—'

(However I do absolutely need to point out that nowadays, since the Rebirth era, Cassie has definitely been pulled back from that over-sexualization from the New 52 era:)

But anyway, yeah, these kinds of comparisons just... got people talking and thinking about the situation more, I think. Got people realizing that this character has been altered so heavily over time in ways that at their root had little to do with character motivation and much more to do with 'making her appeal more to the male audience'.

And so, back to the Wonder Woman page from this week, it feels largely like this 'Diana allowed me to become a 'princess girl' thing was King's attempt at smoothing out Cassie's history in regards to this subject for his approach to her character—to acknowledge her tomboy past, but still make it clear that she's changed. She's not being over-sexualized like in the N52 era anymore, and she's not outwardly disparaging her younger self the way she did in the Teen Titans era anymore either.... but she is a 'princess girl' now.

Which irks me because I feel like a far more interesting story with Cassie would be to allow her to embrace elements of her tomboy past and reincorporate those into who she is now, to salvage the irl situation that has caused these changes in her character and make it into a story about how societal pressures can impact a person and change who they are for a while... but that they can pull themselves out of that and not just be defined by what the world around them thinks they should be—BUT I do acknowledge that's my wishful thinking, that's my approach I'd love to take with her character, that's not something a writer at DC is like... required to explore. If I just hold up every modern comic in comparison to that idea, then of course I'll be constantly in disappointment.

So putting my feelings on how I think Cassie should be handled aside, the primary other thing that irks me is this specific approach to 'smoothing things out' that King took—having this shift in Cassie's characterization be attributed to Diana's influence.

Because, well, I have read most of Cassie's appearances. I can look at release dates of issues and the stories within them. And because of that, I know that Cassie meeting Diana was not the root source of the shift in her character the way this page from King treats it. (Like... Cassie met Diana when she was introduced in 1996... and while Cassie definitely started to shift slightly more girly gradually after the Byrne WW run ended in 1998, the substantial 'huge jump from before' changes were in 2003)

I want to specifically bring up Wonder Woman Vol. 2 Issue 153 for a second here. A relatively-early-in-her-history (late 1999/early 2000) issue in which Cassie does actively try to change herself for the girly-er... temporarily.

She attempts to re-do her whole look into something more feminine because she wants to impress Kon (her celebrity crush/teammate) and gets a makeover from Cissie

Which she soon realizes was a mistake and it's stupid trying to impress Kon like this in the first place. In part of her explaining to Kon why she tried doing this... she cites the rumors of 'Superman and Wonder Woman' and why that made her think Superboy and Wonder Girl would be a perfect pair.

So, um, sure. Yeah. Acting like Diana's influence caused Cassie to like... get more in touch with her 'pink and frilly' side? That bugs the shit out of me. Societal pressure from the idea of Wonder Woman (and the idea of 'Wonder Woman being paired romantically with male heroes') caused Cassie to once try to change herself to be more in touch with her 'girly' side, but it backfired wildly and was something she immediately regretted because it wasn't true to who she is.

Like... I dunno, my ultimate point here is that I think this was just a stupid approach to the subject from King. I don't think he was the right person to approach this subject with her at all.

I think he could have easily written an interaction between Cassie & Diana here that didn't involve this topic of Cassie's approach/relationship to femininity at all—I get that the point he was trying to make was about their influences on each other (not that I think the influence he had Diana say Cassie had on her is great either... teaching her 'how to be an American'... 😒) but there could have been... a lot of other things to say!

Things that could be just... far more meaningful. Something about ways Diana taught Cassie to find strength in herself, to find confidence, to find leadership qualities... ya know? I mean hell, that core idea of 'I will not be ruled' that he has her bring up, that exact sentiment could be taken in so many different directions aside from the one he chose—Cassie being inspired by Diana to stand her ground and approach things her own way could be about a million things aside from... her being or not being 'a princess girl'.

Thank you for this thoughtful analysis

I hate the Tom King page with a passion, it seems like he's desperately trying to come up with a reason why actually you should choose to be more girly (or a 'princess girl') because it's actually freeing, and ignoring any type of social pressure that exists. Which winds up just trying at reframing that social pressure as secretly a liberating thing.

Long image description below:

comic page descriptions, in order: First, from teen titans. we see sepia toned flashbacks showing cassie as an 8th grader (or something around that age) sitting wearing a t shirt that is loose and a vest in school. she has short hair. the narration box is from modern day cassie and reads "You remember that girl in eigth grade that sat in the middle of class? She was in the history society and the archaelogy club. She wore T-shirts two sizes too big and had bad hair. and she wasn't very pretty. A few years ago, that girl was me. But a few years can change a lot." we see modern cassie with long blond hair wearing a crop top t shirt for her wonder girl outfit and tight red pants. cassie continues narrating: I know what people said when I was first around. she's not wonder girl. she's a pretender. a fake. some of them still say it. and sometimes… a lot of the time, it still gets to me. because they don't know me. and what they don't understand -- is that i want donna back as much as they do." we see a panel of cassie as wonder girl and superboy (in his black t shirt era) looking at a statue of donna troy.

next we see panels from tom king's wonder woman. they take place in a bar. cassie is wearing green pants and a crop top black zip up shirt with no sleeves and a wonder girl logo. she says "you know, growing up, I was never a princess girl. I'm not saying I didn't like pink or wouldn't see a movie and sing a song now and then. sure, whatever, that's fun. just the whole idea of dressing up in dainty ribbons and bows and waiting around for some inbred dude to confess his love… that never did much for me." cassie stretches onea rm across her chest, then sits down and says "I liked to get outside, get in the mud, play it dirty. go until someone had to yell at you, then go a little longer until they're yelling real loud. I wasn't waiting for anyone. but when I met you, Diana, the way you carried yourself. the way you said to the world 'i will not be ruled'. then I finally got it, y'know -- what all those other frilly girls saw. the beauty in the dress and the hair and the tower and the song. and I became a princess girl." cassie and diana clasp hands. cassie says "So if you think I'm going to leave you alone now… with what you're facing? Me, the princess girl… now, I got a lot of doubts, being in the middle, but I didn't doubt that."

next comic panels (labelled " (Young Justice Vol. 1 #20, Cover of Teen Titans Vol. 5 #1)") show cassie's outfit in YJ, and then in teen titans rebirth. in YJ we see her wearing loose-ish jeans with star patterns on the leg and hip, a leather jacket with metal shoulder pads, big white sneakers, metal armguards, a crop top that is black with a wonder woman logo, and goggles pushed up on her head and she has pig tails. then there is teen titans 2011 cassie, who is wearing a skin tight red outfit that has a tube top cut around her chest and no straps or sleeves, and gold metal gauntlets and armguards. she has long flowing blond hair. we then see a panel of her holding up a guy by his neck, in the teen titans 2011 outfit. cassie says "Let me hear it again -- who were you goign to kill? The guy gurgles and says "I -- I --" then cassie throws him and says "That's what I thought you said." next panel shows young justice 2019 cassie (wearing a grey skirt, black leggings with gold star motives, red sneakers, a blue and red shirt, and a brown leather jacket) kicking despero in the face with her lasso around his neck. despero says "I don't even know who you are" and cassie says "that devastates me." the line of action is drawn so that there is a lot of focus of Cassie kicking him, and the jacket and hair move back as if they're resisting movement, like they would in real life. This is different from the previous image with 2011 cassie, where her hair was kind of just blowing in the breeze

Next, at the comics labelled (Wonder Woman Vol. 2 #153), we see cassandra sandsmark in her black wig and big goggles, and her black t shirt and blue vest. she is looking in the mirror and thinking "I probably wouldn't have to go to all this effort to get Superboy's attention if I didn't look like a little boy in swimming goggles." there's a page focused on her changing her outfit. there is a close up of her putting lipstick on, and she says (to someone off panel), with the format of a narration box showing the dialogue (rather than dialogue bubbles) "a makeover. I'm sick of people saying I look like one of the sesame street gang. I want to try something a little more… I dunno, starfire." Cassie zips ups a tight red miniskirt with blue and white stars. someone else says "And you thought you'd consult the hollywood superhero team, huh?" a close up shows cassie lacing up some big white shoes with platforms. the other person off panel says "Someone who spent as much time learning to walk in high heels as she did in the jeet kwon do class? a girl who's bossy, manipulative mother is more concerned with how she photographs than what she actually does? Is that what this is all about" We see a close up of cassie putting on leather gloves. then, she puts on goggles. she says (still formatted in a narration box) "yeah, pretty much." the persorn she's talking to says "well, you came to the right place, girl… i've wanted to do something about that hair since the moment I laid eyes on you." We see a close up of her crop top with the wonder girl logo and the letter g. then we see cassie's whole outfit. she has a red miniskirt with blue and white stars, a black leather jacket, black crop top with the wonder woman lgoo, thigh high scoks, white sneakers with big soles. cissie king jones (arrowette) stands behind her and looks at her. cassie says "wow!" Cissie says "Are you sure you don't want like, a bustier?" cassie says "Uh uh. call me old fashione,d but I still say a super-heroine's iq should be bigger than her chest measurement" she looks towards Cissie and says "God, my mom is going to hate this skirt with a passion." Cissie says "who cares? Superboy won't be able to take his eyes off it." Cissie smiles and puts her hands on cassie's shoulders. cassie says "Um, arrowette, promise not to tell the others that I like him?" Cissie says "Only if you don't say who I like, wonder girl.' then we see cassie in the same outfit (but with no goggles or black wig) talking to kon el (superboy) in an alley. kon el leans forward and says "Are you telling me this new look with all the makeup was for my benefit? Cassie says "kinda… yeah. I just thought, seeing as we'd have to fill the biggest boots in the world one day, you and me had something in common… and since everyone's always speculating about superman and wonder woman… well… it just seemed like such a perfect match… until I looked in your eyes and felt something I'd never actually experienced before." Kon asks "What did you feel like?" cassie cries one tear and says quietly "someone's little sister…"

My Post Crisis Stephanie Brown reading list for y’all! [twit] [tt]

Best place to access (if you have the funds, can read digital, and it’s available in your country) is via the DCUI app. Subscription is less than 10£ a month, and gives you access to 27k different dc issues, including all of these ones.

If you have a public library system near you, you can go in via person, or use an app such as hoopla or Libby to access whatever issues they have.

Obviously, local comic shops (if you have any near you, I don’t) are also a potential for back issues and Tradebacks, though only the war games arc and Steph’s batgirl run have ever been included in those. Some also have online shops!

Half-mask Mask Bats

Alternate cropping:

Steph profile

bestiess

DAY 3: RED STRING OF FATE

i couldnt come up with anything cool so i just put a little red ribbon around them...im so sorry stephcass

stephcass week day 3: red string of fate

on a chance encounter, years ago...

this one’s super simple but i still think it’s really cute ^_^

@stephcass-week

StephCass 2023 Day #1: Holding Hands

day 3: red string of fate

it is stephcass week. day 1 and 2

im not super great at making comics yet but stephcass week day 2! first kiss!!!

@stephcass-week