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@strengthsbystrengths / strengthsbystrengths.tumblr.com

Jas/21/Drama Nerd AO3 Shakespeare Art Shakespeare Crossovers Coriolanus Discussions
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I’m still very mad that they didnt make an ANCIENT ROME ASSASSINS CREED GAME LIKE TF UBISOFT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

let me play as Brutus and parkour all over Rome before stabbing Caesar

I know that Brutus is part of the mythos.

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favourite shakespeare memes • treating julius caesar like a bunch of bitchy high schoolers • “i smiled because i loved you. you smiled because you knew.” • “(quote that is blatantly not shakespeare)” -william shakespeare • dirtbag macbeth • hamlet as a mid 2000s emo • any and all variations on the “do you bite your thumb at us, sir” exchange from romeo and juliet • [exit, pursued by a bear] • kill claudio

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Sign up for Antony & Cleopatra now!

We’re doing things a little differently this time. I’ve been doing all the time zone calculations by hand, in a spreadsheet, and it’s taken hours upon hours to do each time. I’ve been trying to make things easier for you all, but I didn’t realize how much more complex I was making them for myself and the other admins. I’m continuing to fine tune and work on ways to streamline the process of running this shindig, so please bear with me.

So, we’re going back to using the most popular times for each day, since even when we tailor the times to specific availability we end up largely with the same times each month. Each day will have three time slots available: 10am, 3pm, and 8pm EDT. You will have to fill out a second form for availability (the link is on the Google form), but using Doodle for that will completely eliminate the extra work I’ve been doing. 

You don’t need a Doodle account; simply select your time zone and choose the times you’re available (and you can even select things as “if need be” instead of simply “yes” or “no”). When I look at the spreadsheet, I will see all of your selections in my own time zone and can therefore see at a glance who is available when. I’ve been working very hard to make sure things go smoothly but I need to make sure us admins don’t have too much to do, or it won’t be sustainable.

Now that we’ve gone over that, a couple of other things! The name differences between Folger and Open Source Shakespeare are wildly off for A&C. Thidias in the Folger edition is Thyreus in OSS. All of the minor roles like Second Guard and Third Messenger are mixed up with OSS’s Attendants and such. Folger’s Ambassador is Euphronius in OSS. Just be aware of that when tracking your roles. All of the roles on the forms are aligned with the Folger edition since that is what we read from. Also, I’ll be putting up a pronunciation guide for several of the more difficult names in this play.

In terms of character names, there was some confusion before where characters like ‘Messenger’ and ‘First Messenger’ are concerned. These will now be one role, so wherever you see (1st) Messenger or (1st) Guard, it means you will be playing the character named Messenger, and when other messengers are present, you are the First Messenger in that scene. Soldier and First Soldier, Guardsman and First Guard, etc. Same person now.

Thanks for reading all of that, and I can’t wait to do Antony & Cleopatra this month! Please let us know if you have any questions, and pass the sign-ups around to your friends! The forms will close at 11:59pm EDT on Sunday, August 13th.

Also, I forgot to mention that Boy is the name for the character who sings in this play. Anyone can add that role onto their other roles if they’d like to sing. It’s only one scene and it’s all he does. It’s just a way for me to denote that you’d like to sing or would not like to sing. So when you see Boy (song), that’s what that means!

AHHHHHH IM COMING EM IM COMINGGGG I MISS U

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If Shakespeare characters had dated:

Othello’s and Desdemona’s first date:

Started of very well, but only lasted about an hour. While Desdemona was quickly using the restroom., Iago, who “happened” to be at the same restaurant too, pointed out Othello, that it was just outrageous how Desdemona flirted with the waiter. When the waiter came to collect the order an ugly scene ensued. Desdemona shared  a taxi with Emilia who left early too after a row with her husband.

Hamlet and Ophelia:

Ophelia left exasperatedly after Hamlet had not been able to decide which starter he would like to have after she had already finished her four course meal. She decided that a date with the prince really wasn’t worth skipping her swimming classes.

Beatrice and Benedick:

A concerned waiter offered to help mediate in their dispute, only to gain two surprised glances and to be informed that they weren’t arguingat all and that he kindly should not Interrupt their date.

Falstaff and the Merry Wives of Winsdor:

Falstaff received adoring, ardent, passionate replies to his many invitations (no less than he expected), but strangely enough the only one who showed up was Master Ford…. (btw the ladies had a faboulous Pride and Prejudice film night at the Ford’s, Sigh Darcy with no wet shirt…)

Antonio and Sebastian, Sebastian and Olivia

Antionio had scraped his Money together to invite Sebastian to this really fancy restaurant. However, when Seabstian arrived, Olivia caught sight  of him as he entered the restaurant and asked him to sit with her in her private room. Antonio spent the evening watching the door, noticing a man in alarmingly yellow socks doing the same, drinking a lonely bottle of wine.

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How many Shakespeare characters canonically had dogs I need to know.

I know Hotspur, and then Theseus had a bunch of hunting dogs that were really fancy hunting dogs and then one of the Mechanicals had a dog too. Maybe. I think it was Starveling (Moonshine) in the play but it could have belonged to any of them. 

From there I don’t really remember. I feel like someone had one in Lear?

Beatrice has a dog! “I had rather hear my dog bark at a crow than a man swear he loves me.”

This is good

Hotspur and Beatrice bond over rather hearing their dogs bark than people be annoying. Also historically Richard II had a greyhound named Mathe.

Don’t forget the most famous Shakespeare dog, and the only one who appears onstage – Launce’s dog Crab from Two Gentlemen of Verona.

Benvolio had a dog, Mercutio Claims Benvolio argued with a man who coughed and woke his dog.

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weavemama

America is about to be that part in the lion king where where pride rock became all shitty bc Scar became king

have yet to see a better analogy

Are you implying Hilary Clinton’s daughter will assassinate Donald Trump because I’m okay with this

Actually, if we follow the narrative, I think it would be the Obama daughters. Which would be even MORE awesome.

Malia’s gonna fight Trump on the roof of the Whitehouse while it’s on fire.

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kyraneko

Didn’t Scar get killed by the hyenas, who turned against him when he tried to throw blame at them while begging for his life?

The equivalent would be Trump cornered by both Obama sisters on the White House roof (yes, while it’s on fire, I can totally believe that Trump will somehow lead to the White House catching fire at some point) insisting that “we’re all friends against the Republican establishment, it’s their fault” and Sasha and Malia quote one of Trump’s tweets back at him to tell him to get the fuck out; Trump scurries away and runs right into Pence and Cruz. 

“Our fault, is it, Donald?”

Alternatively, since Scar originally gained the support of the hyenas by promising them a better life with lots of food, Trump is clearly going to fall off the roof of the White House into the arms of the Republican base that voted for him because he promised them a better economy.

Okay but then who’s going to dress in drag and do the hula?

Joe Biden??

Definitely Joe Biden.

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A well-researched and thoughtful opinion

I’m reading Coriolanus and, like, what’s Shakespeare’s beef with guys named Brutus? He’s got two dudes named Brutus who overthrow “ambitious” Romans. This is not about historical accuracy. Shakespeare regularly did not give a shit about historical accuracy. Julius Caesar had a goddamn clock. Some Italian boy named Brutus pissed him off and he was like, “you know what’s  good name for the guy who’s gonna start a coup? Brutus.”

Uh if this isn’t fully a joke I will argue in defense of the historicity of Julius Caesar, since the play actually follows the events really well.

Don’t worry, I know about Julius Caesar, but there’s academic debate about whether or not Coriolanus’ story was based on a real historical event. The joke was that Shakespeare decided they should both be Brutus. One Brutus is accuracy, two Brutuses is suspicious. 

(My specialty is Julius Caesar so I get excited when it looks like there’s even a small question about it) As far as I understand, it seems Coriolanus takes place near the beginning of the Republic, where there was indeed a tribune named Brutus, who was supposedly an ancestor of the Brutus in Julius Caesar. (Also IIRC the earlier Brutus also appears in the poem the Rape of Lucrece, since he was one of the men who deposed the Tarquin, hence the line “My ancestors did from the streets of Rome the Tarquin drive when he was called a king.”) So if Coriolanus takes place around the time of the founding of the Republic, that Brutus could very well be Lucius Junius Brutus, who actually did exist. @strengthsbystrengths any commentary on the Coriolanus side?

Historical links with the two tribunes  is one of my favourite underrated things about Coriolanus so thank you for the tag  @percyhotspur and @the-full-shakespearience you’ve just given me the opportunity I’ve been waiting for to ramble about my favourite topic

Because it all ties in that Martius being proud isn't just a petty jab, but paranoia that he's going to be like their last king, Tarquin the Proud.

While it compresses seven years together, rearranges some events and is much more critical across the board in terms of characters (the original is much more anti-plebeian, and the play is much more critical of Martius despite him getting arguably a more sympathetic portrayal here) Coriolanus is actually pretty good in terms of historical accuracy, with some of the speeches taken almost directly from Plutarch. While there's still questions over whether the entire thing is mythological, I think at the time of writing the plays there wasn't that doubt. There was actually a second tribune called Brutus, but he only appears in some of the versions of the Coriolanus myth and doesn't have a full name, while Sicinius appears across the board.  He could be inspired by Lucius Junius Brutus, the famous member mentioned in Julius Caesar, and parts of his speeches against Coriolanus could be inspired by his oath to "suffer no man to rule Rome" and causing the people "desirous of a new liberty, not to be swayed by the entreaties or bribes of kings."  He was one of the major players in  overthrowing Tarquin after pretending to be loyal and obvious and was against the family prior to the events of the Rape of Lucretia.

But he died leading what looks like the first battle Martius fought at 16 at Silva Arsia (making Coriolanus in his 30s through the compressed timeline of the play),  and with the way he's treated by other characters, particularly in being mocked by Menenius, I doubt he's supposed to be Lucius. His two sons, Tiberius and Titus, also shared the name Junius Brutus, but they're also dead by the start of the play: brutally tortured and executed as their father watched after they tried to reinstall the monarchy.

'Junius Brutus' is just the family name and title without the first name (like Martius Coriolanus without the Caius; Julius Caesar’s Brutus, Marcus, shares it too), so it feels like he's been characterised as a mixture of its early members: the sneaky duo trying to gain their own power, and the man willing to sacrifice anything to ensure another tyrant doesn't become king.

With the republic being little over a decade old at the start of the play, regardless of the specifics of who he is, just being a part of the family ties him straight to the reputations of Lucius, Tiberius and Titus. I'd love to see a production with more distinct tribunes, because they're histories are so different: at the very least Brutus was a part of one of the most prominent, beloved and honoured patricians families, and Sicinius was a plebeian. Potentially one of the first to come to power, and he personally planned and lead the protests from the beginning of the play (which were actually peaceful successions to a nearby hill). There seems to be more bitterness between him and Coriolanus than Coriolanus and Brutus (he's the one who wants to throw him off the rock), so a lot of Coriolanus' hatred towards plebeians can come off as very personal insults. It also makes how carelessly the tribunes use the people in the play so sad, particularly with how much they adore them in later scenes: Brutus is from a family who swore to protect them, and Sicinius is one of them whose finally managed to give them a voice, perhaps the first to do so.

Speaking of the people and early founders, it also adds a lot to some other characters. I think Valeria is criminally underused, not only due to her fantastic speech convincing Volumnia to go stop her son, but also due to her family: her brother was another one of the founding members and Martius shows respect to her due to it (calling her the “noble sister of Publicola, the moon of Rome”), but his very title means "friend to the people" and a lot of his career was dedicated to aiding the people and stopping the monarchy: including all rights being forfeited of anyone suspected of restarting the monarchy, as they seem to fear Coriolanus does. He's in some ways the anti-Coriolanus, publically mourned for a year and having  his funeral was payed for by the people (shortly after passing consulship to Menenius Martius is literally the only one of his friends without a consulship Volumnia must be so disappointed). And his reputation for public support precedes him: for Hamilton fans, the Federalist Papers written by Hamilton, Madison and Jay used his name as a pseudonym. Historical Coriolanus is even more blatantly classist, but in the play he actually shares more in common with the plebeians than his fellow patricians, and a lot of their lines mirror each other; it seems ironic he turns down money and customs when they're the main things separating him from them.

And the paranoia of Coriolanus' consulship turning into another monarchy could be tied to Cominius as well, who was one of several consuls burned alive on order of the tribunes (different ones) a few years after Coriolanus attacks Rome due to plotting to make a consul king. A lot of the lines from him and the tribunes are very interesting through that lens, either through genuinely plotting to make Coriolanus a puppet king - the tribunes do wonder if his "insolence" can endure to be commanded under Cominius and that a lot of his honours are due to Martius - or whether the tribunes exploit the suspicion for their own gain.

Aufidius' depiction also could tie into the "King Martius the Proud" undertones. While Shakespeare does use the historical names he's given and they come from a different root, Tullus does sound a lot like Tullia, the name of both of King Tarquin's wives. The first and oldest was milder and gentler, while the younger was fierce and ambitious, and after being in-laws the pair murdered Tullia's husband and sister to marry each other. She also encouraged him to take the throne himself, ordering the assassination of the former king: her own father, who she then ran over in a chariot.  While Aufidius does take Martius into his house and give him his army in all versions, the blatant sexual and romantic note to their relationship, and the attention its given in the play, is purely Shakespeares.  So its plausible that a lot of Aufidius' characterisation could have been taken from Tarquin's life, making him almost a Lady Macbeth type figure and I have another entire Aufidius rant with the fragments of Volscian history/mythology and ties to Homer 

But speaking of reoccurring Italian names, it sounds like Shakey might have had a fling with a a sailor called Antonio or five

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Coriolanus by William Shakespeare

Genre: Drama Page #: 339 Published in: 2009 Publisher: Simon & Schuster 

Rating: [4/5]

Official Synopsis:

Set in the earliest days of the Roman Republic, Coriolanus begins with the common people, or plebeians, in armed revolt against the patricians. The people win the right to be represented by tribunes. Meanwhile, there are foreign enemies near the gates of Rome. The play explores one reason that Rome prevailed over such vulnerabilities: its reverence for family bonds. Coriolanus so esteems his mother, Volumnia, that he risks his life to win her approval. Even the value of family, however, is subordinate to loyalty to the Roman state. When the two obligations align, the combination is irresistible. Coriolanus is so devoted to his family and to Rome that he finds the decision to grant the plebians representation intolerable. To him, it elevates plebeians to a status equal with his family and class, to Rome’s great disadvantage. He risks his political career to have the tribunate abolished—and is banished from Rome. Coriolanus then displays an apparently insatiable vengefulness against the state he idolized, opening a tragic divide within himself, pitting him against his mother and family, and threatening Rome’s very existence.

My Review:

This is one of Shakespeare’s later, much lesser known tragedies. I really had no interest in reading this play at first, but it was either this or Henry V and I hate Henry V. What started out as grudging acceptance morphed into pure and unadulterated love for this ridiculous play.

The play features Coriolanus, a Roman soldier with some pretty serious mommy issues. After winning valor for himself fighting against the Volscian rebellion, he tries to get elected consul but some of the tribunes ruin everything for him. Coriolanus is one of the most selfish and childish man-child characters I have ever come across. Seriously, this play is so weird and over-the-top. 

Coriolanus is probably one of Shakespeare’s gayest plays too. There’s some really blatant homoerotic dialogue between the two main characters. It’s one of those plays where you can’t help but laugh as things just spiral out of control. 

I also watched a bunch of movie adaptations for the same project I read the play for, and the one with Tom Hiddleston is my favorite. That one really captures the humor that I see in the play. Seriously, I really love this play.

One of the only things I don’t like about this play is some of the characters. There are a couple of characters that really serve no function to the story, so it’s kind of pointless that they’re there. Otherwise, I would really recommend it. 

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Parallels between plays

Othello, Winter’s Tale, Much Ado. They’re really quite similar if you think about it…

Characters:

  1. a woman who has been falsely accused of cheating on her husband/boyfriend – Desdemona, Hermione, Hero
  2. said jealous husband/boyfriend – Othello, Leontes, Claudio
  3. fierce feminist woman and protective friend of #1 – Emilia, Paulina, Beatrice
  4. controlling dad of #1 – Brabantio, Leonato
  5. man with whom #1 is accused of cheating – Cassio, Polyxenes
  6. man who first plants the idea in #2’s mind that #1 is cheating on him – Iago, Don John

I love how all three of these are different genres of play, though. Kinda shows how you can take the same plot, tweak it a little, and end up with a completely different story…

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