I meant to make this meme ages ago when pride month was still on but yeah gé (pronounced gay) is the Irish for a goose.

IT’S FINALLY PRIDE MONTH, TIME TO REBLOG THIS AGAIN.

Okay *sigh* this scene in itself has many problems. And I’m gonna give this my thoughts.

I just really dislike this scene. Why does he keep tryna kiss her after clearly seeing that she is uncomfortable?! Before anyone says anything I know that what Adrien is doing is La bise. We’ve seen it with Marinette and Chloe back in Despair Bear. But however that doesn’t excuse what he is doing because Marinette clearly doesn’t want to so why must he continue?

I mean like if you are meeting up with your friend and you try to give them a hug as a sign of friendlyness, but the person you are trying yo get in contact with backs away immediately, would you keep hugging them?

It was fine the first time, nothing wrong there. Then the second time he tries it again and that’s fine because mabye he didn’t get the hint. But the third time? Absolutely not! This dude clearly doesn’t know what boundaries are… (well considering how he is Chat Noir it shouldn’t be surprising am I right?) And don’t even get me started on Alya. She fucking restrians Marinette from backing away and I thought she was getting some sort of development during season 4 ;-;. Why the fuck is she so pushy this episode.

Like what even is this writing?

You wanna talk about not taking a hint? Adrien tells Marinette flat out that he loves someone else, and she still continues to stalk him and fangirl over his scent and bully other girls to keep him to herself.

You shouldn’t even NEED a hint to know that someone isn’t comfortable with you stalking them and breaking into their house.

Yes, Adrien is super dense, but is Marinette really any better in terms of romance? How is it fair that Adrien is punished for being pushy while Marinette is pardoned for literally breaking the law?!

And as for Alya, Marinette is always nervous when it comes to Adrien. She just thought Marinette wanted the kiss but was just being her usual spazz self that she always is around the boy.

That girl is a few berries short of a picnic, and her personality switched up so much it’s impossible to tell what she’s okay with and what she’s not okay with.

You left out the part at the end of the episode where she was going to give him up and take down his picture, but Tikki basically encouraged her not to. It is literally because of Tikki’s interference that Marinette still had an interest in Adrien at the end of that episode, because Tikki knows Adrien’s identity so she’s trying to play matchmaker.

Go ahead, look it up.

It’s there.

Also in case you didn’t know this. Alya holding Marinette down to force her to get a kiss is absolutely wrong and always will be unacceptable. There is no excuse for that. I don’t care how much of a spazz Marinette is, you don’t do that ever. It’s assault. PERIOD.

So Marinette stalks Adrien and invades every part of privacy he has and bullies other girls for the sake of her “rivalry” with them (I say it like that because Marinette bobbles the ball so much with Adrien it’s no wonder he took four seasons for their friendship to reach love level, when he’d already been on close terms with literally everyone in the class after a couple of months) for four seasons, and Tikki interferes ONE TIME, amd now it’s all her fault. I have my own qualms with Tikki, but I’m not blaming her for Marinette getting hooked back on Adrien.

Did Tikki interfere after Marinette broke up with Luka? Or after Frozer but before Backwarder and Animaestro when she schemed against Kagami after saying she wanted Adrien to be happy no matter what he chose? No, she didn’t. Obviously, the writers are gonna keep Marinette and Adrien in love, no matter how unhealthy things get, for the sake of status quo.

Besides, I’m not talking about how Marinette never gives up on Adrien, not entirely. I’m talking about how she STALKS HIM PLACES, BREAKS INTO HIS HOUSE, and BULLIES innocent girls for the sake of love rivalries (honestly, and people wonder why the class assumes her grudge against Lila has to do with jealousy).

Yes, maybe what Alya did is wrong. But her heart was in the right place. And the point is, Marinette has done far worse in the series than Alya and Adrien combined in this scene alone. Say what you want about them, but Marinette is no better. I don’t care how many favors she’s done for Adrien, or if he’s not aware of her misdeeds. Her breaking into his house and oogling his personal belongings is absolutely wrong and will always be unacceptable. Her stalking him and keeping his schedule to know where he is every minute of the day is absolutely wrong and will always be unacceptable. Her bullying other girls who Adrien so much as smiles at is absolutely wring and will always be unacceptable. It is unhealthy and damaging and just plain wrong. PERIOD.

First of all, you can’t stalk someone you’ve been trying to get over since Season 2. That word has been thrown around so much it’s lost any kind of meaning. In Frozer, when Marinette tried to give up on him, her friends were upset with her and said they weren’t going to let her give up on him. And there’s more instances of her friends pushing her into interacting with Adrien when she says she’s not ready.

Marinette is usually too nervous to interact with Adrien on her own, so often in fact that Alya is usually the one that lets her know where Adrien is because she has Nino to tell her. She even bullied Nino into asking Adrien to invite her and Marinette to the wax museum in Puppeteer 2 when Marinette turned her down because she was babysitting. So those places you say Marinette stalks him to, she is often taken there by Alya or it’s Alya who lets her know he’s there and forces her to go. In fact this is on brand for Alya to do!

She did the same thing in Stormy Weather in season 1, Kung Food when she called Adrien without asking Marinette if it was okay to be the one to help her with the translation between her and her great uncle. She even tried to force Marinette into an elevator with Adrien in Optigami and Marinette literally had to put her hands and feet on the wall to stop her, and this was AFTER she’d already told Alya she wanted to move on from Adrien!

Now I’m not gonna lie, Marinette has done some things “on her own” that were wrong. But I put that in quotation marks because usually someone else is involved or influenced her actions, like when she went into his house in Cat Blanc. She was pressured to go by her friends after she’d already felt unsure and got screamed at by Rose and threatened with being shut out of their group until she gave him the gift which was so out of pocket. She was mad because she lost a bet Marinette wasn’t even involved in or knew about and she took her anger out on her. Marinette even told Tikki after she tried the normal way to give Adrien the gift, “You heard Rose, I can’t back out.” Look up the episode, she literally says this and did this because she felt like she didn’t have a choice. Her obsession is clearly wrong, but she never stalked him.

Or in the case of the movie premier, Chloe influenced her and when Marinette’s anxiety gets involved she doesn’t think clearly, but notice how she still came to her senses and refused to take any further part. And let’s not say she bullied girls, cuz the only one she really had a rivalry with when it came to Adrien was Kagami, and she wasn’t very nice to Marinette either. She assumed Adrien liked Marinette and tended to give her mean looks or side eyes even though Marinette hadn’t even said anything to her.

Even in Frozer Kagami purposely showed off just to show Adrien she was better than her. Marinette came there as support for Adrien even though it hurt her. And when Marinette realized Kagami wasn’t that bad, they were able to put things aside and become friends. She didn’t have a rivalry with Chloe over Adrien, because it was clear to literally everyone that Adrien didn’t see Chloe that way at all, and her main gripe was that Chloe was a huge bully. Same with Lila, she’s not jealous nor did she bully Lila, she was justifiably pissed off that this girl was lying and manipulating her friends, not to mention slandering her superhero persona to make herself look better. So again, what “girls” is she bullying?

Alya holding Marinette down in order to force Marinette to receive a kiss from Adrien, LITERALLY proves she’s not a stalker. A stalker doesn’t concede, and Marinette has tried, many times but is often forced back into pursuing Adrien by the narrative. Calling Marinette a stalker, is like calling someone greedy when they are being forced to eat by someone else. It doesn’t make sense to call she that when her friends are forcing her to interact, i.e., Alya holding Marinette down in that photo.

So like I said, it’s bad. PERIOD. Not “maybe” bad. Definitely bad.

And everything I said you can look up for yourself in the episodes which are canon facts.

Typical Marinette stan. Marinette can’t do anything wrong on her own, and when she does, it’s someone else’s fault. The problem is, you keep clamouring for Adrien and Alya and everyone else to take responsibility for their action, but when Marinette screws up, you make every excuse under the sun for her.

I’m sorry, did Alya tell Marinette to stalk Adrien in Volpina or Oni-Chan? No, Marinette chose to do that. In the latter, she even tried to spy on then and break into his house! Alya wasn’t part of THAT decison, now was she?

Okay, so Rose pushed her to leave her gift there. Marinette could have just told her that Gabriel wouldn’t let her in, that’d be understandable. And even if she was pressured, Marinette could have just left it there. The pressure didn’t make Marinette oogle his stuff like she was in a museum, or FRICKIN SMELL HIS BED. That’s just gross.

Oh, boo hoo. Kagami was a little cold towards Marinette, so Marinette is perfectly justified in trying to male her sit in cake and humiliate her at a big public event. No, that wasn’t bullying at all. FYI Kagami wasn’t trying to be mean to Marinette. She was calling Marinette out on how she was her own worst enemy. A common misinterpretation from that Kagami line is that she was trying to spite Marinette. Instead, Kagami was saying, “I know you like Adrien, but I like him, too, and I’m not gonna just sit around and wait for you to get over yourself while you fumble the ball. So if you want him, you’ll have to win him from me fair and square, and that means you have to get over whatever it is you’ve got going on.” Kagami knows Marinette likes him, but she likes him, too, and she’s not gonna bow out out of curtsey, especially when Marinette can’t seem to get over her ditzy ways around him.

And she definitely wasn’t bullying Lila in Volpina. Before you say anything, Volpina was BEFORE Lila started seeing Marinette as an enemy. Marinette is the one who threw the first rock as Ladybug. The only thing Lila did wrong to Marinette in Volpina was flirt with her crush and lie about being a superhero, and make ONE flimsy little backhanded comment. And for that, Ladybug humiliated her and insulted her cruelly in front of someone she knew she liked. Even if you argue it was over the comment and not the flirting, what Ladybug did was excessively cruel for just one little comment that wasn’t even intended to say to her face.

What you’re saying is, everyone else in this show is capable of making bad decisions on their own EXCEPT Marinette. Some of these people have good intentions when they get Marinette, like try to push her out of her comfirt zone or get her to seize the moment, but when Marinette goes to the extremes, it’s their fault. Just because Alya has tried to get Marinette out of her comfort zone and talk to Adrien, it’s her faukt when Marinette stalks Adrien places. Just because Rose got sick of watching Marinette bobble the ball with Adrien and pushed her to confess, it’s her fault that Marinette smelled his bed. Just because Chloe suggested that they hurt Kagami, it’s her fault Marinette joined, and since Kagami was a little bit icy to her, it’s perfectly justified.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Marinette is not being corrupted by these people. These people may push her, but it’s ultimately her decision whether she goes too far, or when she joins in a bad thing. Marinette is stubborn and assertive and confident, which makes it pretty hard for me to believe that these people could really get her to do anything unless she really wanted to. Alya may have pushed a little, but Marinette CHOSE to stalk Adrien places. Rose may have pushed a little, but Marinette CHOSE to oogle his bedroom stuff and smell his bed. Chloe may have pushed a little, but Marinette CHOSE to join her scheme, just to hurt Kagami, just over a cold shoulder.

At the end of the day, everything Marinette does is HER choice. She doesn’t have to give inti them, and she’s so assertive that I seriously doubt she would give in if she really felt so strongly about it. The sad part is, the decisions she usually does try to make on her own, without even so much as a suggestion from others, she never follows through on.

Marinette always says she’s trying to get over Adrien, but she always backtracks on it. She constantly goes back and forth between trying to get over him and then trying to win him over again. Is it any wonder Alya believes this time won’t be any different than the others? Marinette may “concede” from time to time, but it never sticks. She always goes back to chasing Adrien. When all is sad and done, that is HER decision, not anyone else, and just because some people encourage her, does not take away from the responsibility of her own conscious choices.

And if if she does concede, conceding doesn’t mean she’s not a stalker. If she has stalked someone or broken into their house, she is a stalker. PERIOD.

Typical Adrien Stan, intentionally spreading misinformation and just straight up lying because much of what you just claimed I said, was not what I said at all. But I shouldn’t be surprised, because that’s typical for Adrien Stans. Can’t handle canon facts so they have to make up things in order for Marinette to be hated even more.  First of all, I will admit in the first part of the episode of Volpina, Marinette may have been a little jealous. And I say little, because when she found out Lila was lying about knowing her from watching Alya’s video on the Ladyblog, she became concerned. She actually said out loud if they were being hypnotized by her. And when she followed her to the park, that was TIKKI’S idea. She told Marinette to follow Lila because of the book. After that first part, she was no longer jealous and just concerned because Lila was LYING. She was slandering Ladybug. That’s not a small comment, especially when Alya so easily put what Lila was saying on the Ladyblog without any proper research.  Second of all, I said someone else was “usually” involved when it comes to Marinette interacting with Adrien. Not that they always were, or that she’s never done things alone without another’s influence, because she has. And when she makes a mistake, she takes responsibility, which is unlike Adrien and Alya. Alya literally forced Juleka out of Marinette’s photoshoot and Juleka blamed Marinette for it, which makes no sense since Marinette did her best to try and comfort Juleka when she was panicking. But Alya didn’t catch any heat at all from that, especially when SHE was the one who had invited Adrien to the photoshoot against Marinette’s wishes! And don’t get me started on how Adrien just gets away with stuff all the time. He literally pouts while Paris is drowning and catches NO heat for it at all. And he’s done this several times but you don’t see him apologizing nearly as often as Marinette has, especially when it’s often the case that Marinette didn’t do anything wrong. I can literally come up with dozens of examples of how Marinette apologized for something that wasn’t even her fault, or she was blamed for something that wasn’t her fault. Dozens, if not more.  Also, do you know what Peer Pressure is? Because Lila is using that to turn the class against Marinette by making herself the victim. Here I’ll post the definition since you can’t seem to bother to actually learn what a stalker is by definition: Peer pressure is when you are influenced by other people (your peers) to act in a certain way. If you’re with friends who are doing something that you typically would not do and they convince you to do what they are doing, that is an example of peer pressure. Let’s take a look at just how influential peers can be. The way pressure is applied by peers can vary. A peer might pressure you directly by asking you to do something, or they might tease or coax you so that you will fall in line with their behavior. They may not say anything at all; instead, they may pressure you by treating you as an outcast or by ignoring you. stalk·er[ˈstôkər]NOUNa person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention. Now, remember when I said Rose threatened that Marinette couldn’t hang out with them unless she gave it to him? That’s peer pressure. Marinette felt pressured enough that she felt she couldn’t leave or back out. She said, And I quote,  “No, you heard what Rose said, I can’t back out again.”  As for a stalker, when does Marinette harass Adrien? She often times makes it her business to stay away from and has to be pressured by her friends to interact with him. Is she obsessed? Yes. Does he know that? No. You know what he thought? That she was a fan, and was actually happy that she was. In fact Adrien doesn’t mind Marinette’s company at all and has stated that she is very important to him. When Marinette went after him and Lila in Oni-chan, Marinette stated that she was worried Lila was going to hurt someone. It wasn’t about going after Adrien, it was about stopping Lila from hurting people with her lies. Which came to fruition because she got Kagami akumatized! Did she do it the right way? No. She wasn’t thinking clearly and was only concerned with stopping Lila and warning Adrien. She wasn’t jealous. But typical Adrien stan just ignores the facts because it doesn’t fit your narrative despite the fact that what I’m saying is literally backed up by canon.  The fact that Marinette has been peer pressured into continuing to pursue Adrien is PROOF that she’s not a stalker! She has gone to great lengths to try and get over him, but is always swayed not to. And now you want to still call her a stalker, despite the fact that she had to be HELD DOWN in order for Adrien to try and kiss her. What stalker has to be held down so that a kiss from the person they are “supposedly stalking” can be forced on them by their own best friend? 

NONE, because she’s not a stalker.  Stalkers don’t give up. Marinette has multiple times and has been swayed back into liking him. In fact most of her shenanigans are done purely for comedy, like how she freaks out and falls when Adrien surprises her. And the continuity is so bad in this show and the movies that whenever she makes any kind of progress it is slid back so that it appears she hasn’t progressed at all, despite that not being the case! You can’t force someone to stalk someone else! That’s not how stalkers work! It’s why I don’t call her a stalker for going into Adrien’s house, because she was pressured to do it when all the other viable alternatives weren’t there! She couldn’t just leave the gift there! If she had it wouldn’t have had the note, just like the last time she tried to send him a card, or when Nathalie just straight threw away her note in the Bubbler. In that episode, by the way, Alya broke into the mansion in order to find Marinette’s gift and led her to it so she could sign it.  Also, would you call all the other people stalkers in Party Crasher because technically most of the people who were there at that party, were not invited into the house and not supposed to be there. Are they stalkers? No. They aren’t.  And in fact, Adrien wanted Marinette there, whereas Nino told Adrien no because it was just supposed to be the guys, and Adrien’ replies, “But isn’t Marinette one of my guys?” And in fact when Marinette went there because she thought the boys were up to something because Gabriel “left” she went to investigate. When Adrien discovered who she was, he actually chuckled a bit and smiled. He didn’t mind that she was there at all.  So like I said, she’s not a stalker.  As for Kagami, wow, you’re really reaching. There were plenty of times, before that moment in Frozer, and after that episode that Kagami either side eyed or straight glared at Marinette when Marinette didn’t say or do anything to her. All of that show off stuff she did happened before Marinette fell, when she was enjoying her time with Luka. Remember, she only went there because Adrien said he didn’t think he could go by himself. And Marinette went there, breaking her own heart, to be Adrien’s moral support because he needed her. In Backwarder, when she went to give him the note to confess, she hadn’t even acknowledged Kagami or looked at her bad, but the moment she turns her back, Kagami glares at her. Even side eyes Adrien when he’s reading the note Marinette gave him. The fact that Marinette even breaks her own heart in Miracle Queen, despite her lapse in judgement because feelings are hard, she respected that Adrien and Kagami were together. And those “ditzy” behaviors are actually Marinette’s crippling anxiety that’s often used as a punchline instead of it being taken seriously.  But please, I implore you, actually re-watch the episodes and back up your statements with ACTUAL FACTS. Because no matter how many times you try to spread misinformation, the facts ALWAYS outweigh an opinion. And I have no problem backing up mine. Do your research.  PERIOD. 

It’s like you ignored everything I just said. I guess I have to spell it out for you.

Marinette OOGLED ADRIEN’S STUFF like she was in a frickin’ MUSEUM. She TOUCHED HIS DESK. She LAID DOWN IN HIS BED AND SMELLED HIS F***ING PILLOWS.

Are you saying just because Adrien doesn’t know about any of this, that makes it okay?!?! If a man breaks into a woman’s house and oogles her things and smells her bed and she never finds out, does that make it okay?!?! No. It doesn’t.

Even if she was peer pressured to deliver the gift, that has nothing to do with her admiring and touching Adrien’s personal belongings. Even with the pressure, Marinette just had to leave the note. The oogling and touching and laying down in his bed and smelling his pillows were all completely unnecessary to the mission!

And no amount of peer pressure should EVER justify violating the law. It is WRONG. Period. And if Marinette has that little faith in her friendships, that they wouldn’t understand when the only viable option was breaking and entering, than she’s the problem. Just because she was under pressure doesn’t make it okay. That is always another option besides breaking the law.

Lila’s backhanded comment was to Adrien ONLY. She said to ONE person. It wasn’t in the public interview. Therefore, it barely counts as slander, if it even counts at all. Ladybug wasn’t concerned for Lila at all. She was just being petty. And as for Oni-Chan, well, that proves that as much as Marinette adores Adrien, she doesn’t respect or trust him. If she did, she would have simply warned him about Lila verbally, or at the very least shot him a text. But somehow, she decides it’d be a better idea to follow them there and spy on him through his window?! Don’t remember Alya or Tikki pressuring her to do THAT!

As for Alya and Adrien, yes, they’ve makes mistakes, and this one is kind of questionable, at best. But the point I’m trying to make is that as bad as it is, it really is no better than all the other shit Marinette’s pulled in the series. And Syren? You guys always say that Chat Noir never obeys Ladybug. Except this time, HE DID. Ladybug told him to stay put. And even if she hadn’t, the city had already been submerged underwater fir twenty minutes by the time they split. I’m pretty sure anyone who was in danger of drowning would have already drowned long before they even met up.

You wanna talk about not getting punished for mistakes? Marinette tried to HUMILIATE Kagami, by making her sit in cake, at a big fancy party with a ton of VIP guests, just because she was getting cozy with Adrien. All the dirty looks in the world are nowhere near on the same level as pulling a public prank on someone, setting them up to be embarrassed at a huge star-studded event, in front of dozens of A-list celebs around and ruining special clothes that I do not doubt were very expensive. And yet, not only was Marinette not punished for this, she was even REWARDED for it with a seat next to Adrien, which was what she wanted all along. Yes, sometimes, she gets punished for stuff that’s not her fault. But at the same time, she also gets away completely unscathed fir stuff that’s COMPLETELY her fault. So I don’t think she gets TOO raw a deal in the series.

Is a stalker, was a stalker. The point is, what Adrien and Alya did just here, isn’t any better than what Marinette has done in the past. You can’t crucify them while pardoning Marinette. It’s a double standard.

P E R I O D.

Wooooowww I never said that it was okay at all. In fact I said her obsession was not okay multiple times and that includes what she did. And you wanna talk about double standards? Guess who sniffed first? ADRIEN. As Chat Noir, in Animan and everyone thought it was cute.

And Marinette only worked with Chloe because Chloe made Marinette’s anxiety skyrocket by putting untrue thoughts into her head like Kagami was going to steal him away and all that other nonsense. And while Marinette did try to do that, you know what you refuse to acknowledge? That she backed out. That she realized what she was doing was wrong and refused to participate any longer.

And how can you even speak about double standards when Adrien gets away with everything problematic he does? Marinette is always expected to be the bigger person no matter how wronged she is, and no matter how much pressure is on her. Marinette can’t even enter a game competition, win fairly, something her sore loser opponent even said, and not be blamed. She apologized to Max for what? Beating him fairly? I’m sure he had friends who competed and he didn’t seem to feel bad at all about beating them. But because it’s Marinette he’s bitter and a sore loser. Even if Marinette was doing it to play with Adrien, who cares?! She barely got to have any one on one time with him because of his schedule. If she’d cheated that’s one thing, but she won fair and square on her own merits and still had to somehow apologize to Max because he lost.

And what about how Adrien caused Theo to be akumatized because he lied about him and Ladybug being together? Mind this was after multiple times of Marinette telling him she wasn’t into him. If anyone is harassing the other, it’s Adrien harassing Marinette as Chat Noir. Y’all act like he hasn’t made plans to get with Ladybug, all the whole being denied. That’s more creepy than anything because he can’t take no for an answer! He pouts and gets angry and bitter. And despite what you say about Marinette, at the very least she’s getting pressured into pursuing him. He on the other hand keeps going after her with no one pressuring him to do so. Even Plagg has told him that he needs to move on because she’s in love with someone else. He gets no consequences for his continued pursuit of Ladybug, even practically cheating on Kagami and wishing for an akuma so that he could see Ladybug! And you call Marinette the stalker?

And as for Syren no one blames Adrien for waiting for Ladybug, they blame him for threatening to quit because she refused to tell him information she wasn’t allowed to give him. That’s why people were pissed off.

And first of all, no one complains that he doesn’t obey her. People complain about him not taking his job seriously and when he keeps flirting and fooling around when there’s a battle going on. And there’s plenty of instances about that.

You literally have no other perspective. At the very least I can admit when Marinette makes mistakes and does stuff she shouldn’t have. Adrien Stan’s can’t stand to hear a bad word about Adrien, because the only thing that matters is that when he looks sad y’all are ready for war. Even looking at Adrien’s perspective, he’s not being the hero he should be. Like I can understand him having a shitty dad but he continually does things that go against the lessons he’s learned as a hero, like standing up for bullies and shaming the victims like Marinette in Malediktator when everyone was celebrating that Chloe, their long time bully was gone. He don’t care how many people she hurt, even when he knows what she’s like. He only cares that she was hurt, by her own stupid actions by the way, and that they were wrong to celebrate her being gone. He had no right, especially when he’s never had to deal with bullying in school like the others did. It’s okay to him if Chloe is a jerk because he lets her slide all the time, but he’ll shame her victims with the same energy he used to let her get away with it.

So like I said, and keep saying because you seem to conveniently keep refusing to see the facts that can be backed up by source material, Marinette was never a stalker. Get it through your head. Read the definition. If anyone is the stalker it’s Chat Noir, he fits the description to the letter.

PERIOD.

You didn’t say it was okay. You implied it. You tried to excuse Marinette’s actions by saying “oh, Adrien just thinks she’s a fan” when he’s unaware if the more extreme things she’s done. I’m pretty sure if Adrien knew all the stuff she did, he’d be creeped out.

You’re like a lawyer, trying to get through this loopholes. It’s not unwanted attention if he doesn’t know about the worst stuff, you say.

I can admit Adrien makes mistakes. The problem is, you guys act like these mistakes define him. You get upset at all these things Adrien does, when she has done the same thing and even worse. The difference between you and me is, Adrien stans START these conversations to attack Adrien. I latch onto defend them, because I know despite all his shortcomings, Adrien is a good person at heart and would do better if he knew better. You can admit Marinette makes mistakes and still love her, but Adrien makes mistakes and you vilify him for it. Honestly, if it wasn’t for all the hypocritical Marinette stans, I wouldn’t be constantly pointing out Marinette’s flaws all the time just to maintain some sort of balance, and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I only post Marinette salt to remind people that she’s just as flawed as everyone else in the show, and therefore hating other characters while worshipping her is hypocritical.

Again, yes, Marinette is punished unfairly in the show sometimes for things that aren’t her fault. But I think it’s balanced out by the things that ARE her fault that gets away with. Did she get caught and punished for stealing his phone? For following him to his house? For breaking into his house? For spying on him? For trying to hurt Kagami? For smelling his stuff? Nope. She didn’t get punished for any of that. Besides, even with all the consequences she gets, Marinette still has a great life. She has two loving supportive parents, a bunch of loyal friends, guys chasing after her in and out of the mask, and she’s accomplished enough to be one step away from fashion designer fame, at only 15. You guys keep saying Marinette has it rough, but from what I see, she’s doing great. So O don’t think the series is THAT unfair to her.

Chat Noir is the stalker? Please. If he was really a stalker, how do you explain Lady WiFi? He was desperate to know who she was, and had a prime chance. Even Plagg, the one whose supposed to enforce the rule, was baffled he didn’t take it. But he didn’t. Because he respected Ladybug. If he was really a stalker, he would have abused his Miraculous to follow her so he could see her detransform. It would have been so easy for him. But he never does. Because even though he’s a little pushy at times, he respects her. And you think he doesn’t take his job seriously? Do you not see how many times he’s used himself as a human shield, or literally DIED so that she can get to the akuma?! Even if he does joke, do you think Marinette would do better with a partner who was completely serious? Hell no. That girl had anxiety, she needs someone to detract from the situation not add to it. She even said so himself that her favorite part about him was his sense of humor.

Adrien never “stands up” for bullies. He lets them get away with some bad stuff, I’ll admit that. But he never defended Chloe’s behavior. Yes, he was sad that she was leaving, but she was his only friend for so long, he has a right to mourn her. And besides, at that point, no matter how bratty Chloe was, she was still just a kid, and the whole school throwing a rager over her leaving is overkill. Plus, Marinette said she was useless, and therefore worthless. Again, a little harsh. As for Lila, he thought she was lying out of insecurity. Just because he didn’t assume the worst in her doesn’t mean he’s on her side, especially not after Ladybug. He straight out said it wasn’t okay that she hurt Marinette. And in Queen Banana, he finally stood up to Chloe and demanded she apologize to the class for trying ruin their film with her big ego.

See? I have facts to back up Adrien’s character, too. And I can admit that he makes mistakes, too. The difference is, I don’t make it sound like all his mistakes and flaws define him. At the end of the day, Marineyte and Adrien are human, and kids. They deserve equal treatment, and shouldn’t be subjected to double standards like this. They are both good kids trying to do their best, and should be held yo the same standards as each other. And given all the horrible mustakes made by the people who are supposed to be the heroes in this show, I’d say the standards for goodness in this show are unusually low.

Implications are not an assurance or a denial. It’s an assumption, and you know what people say about those.  So here you are again, spreading misinformation. Fact of the matter is, I did not say it, whether you think it’s “implied” or otherwise. My facts trump your “implication.” Period. So don’t put words in my mouth or try to explain what I mean because you clearly can’t help but frame things in a way that makes it look better for you.  I never have, nor will I ever endorse what Marinette did in Adrien’s room in Chat Blanc. You see those words? No implication at all. Get that through your head.  And it’s interesting that you say I’m like a lawyer when you’re the one trying to twist words like a sleazy defense attorney.  People hold those mistakes over Adrien’s head because he never gets consequences for them. If Marinette didn’t get consequences for her actions we’d be after her too! But she does! All the time! Even when it’s not her fault! And it’s this double standard of how no one cares when she’s sad or struggling but the moment Adrien looks sad, everyone wants to pull out their pitchforks and usually blame Marinette. She’s not responsible for his feelings, and don’t worry, I’m not implying you said that. It’s just a statement. I love Marinette because when she makes mistakes she makes up for them and actually learns something. Adrien doesn’t, and he gets away with what he did, usually at Marinette’s expense in one form or another. And using himself as a human shield is not something Marinette appreciates, at all. She literally screams at him in Lies, “You can’t keep doing this to me!” and then he just shrugs its off like it’s a joke. She lets it go because she’s relieved to have him back, but she also says “No, just crazy. Reckless.” It’s not something she likes, at all, so please stop talking about that as if his sacrifices are a positive thing. It’s not.  And yes, Chat Noir is a stalker. In that episode you mentioned, about him choosing not to see Ladybug’s identity? Yeah, he had to struggle with not doing it and he had to struggle HARD. The fact that it was even a struggle for him not to peek anyway, is a red flag. He doesn’t have to chase her down to find out her identity, in fact that would be a bad thing because it would cause Fu to take away their miraculous and he’d never be able to know. I’m not saying he knew about Fu yet, because neither of them did at that point. But I’m saying it would have ended badly. Plus why would he have to chase her down when he could see her every akuma attack and hit on her? Also, in Chat Blanc, since you wanna talk about what Marinette did in that episode, it’s crazy how the moment Adrien found out her identity, he immediately went to date her. With no thoughts as to the consequences. He didn’t care, he finally had his Ladybug.  When Marinette found out his identity in Ephemeral, do you know what she did? She hesitated. Felt conflicted, spent time thinking rationally, got good advice about it, thought about the consequences and eventually got comfortable enough to share her identity with him and they had a good friendship and relationship. And the only reason she even found out his identity, was because she was pressured to by Su Han. And when Luka told her what happened, they were able to save the day and she told Su Han off about it.  And it’s funny how you’re now saying that Marinette is unfairly punished in the show now that I posted actual evidence for it, because from what I can read from your previous responses, you don’t even mention that she gets unfairly punished. This is what happens when you have the facts.  Also yes, he does stand up for bullies. He stood up to Ladybug when she exposed Lila and revealed that she was manipulating people. He stood up to Marinette and shamed her and the others for being happy that Chloe was gone, completely dismissing her bad behavior because she’s “hurt”. It’s like he forgot that she nearly killed a train full of people. I still wish to this day, that Marinette would have mentioned that she and her parents were on the train that Chloe sabotaged and that they could have died. Maybe then he’d get a reality check about just how serious Chloe’s actions were, and how things could have turned out if he and Ladybug hadn’t stopped the train. And as for his actions in season 4 about breaking off his friendship with Chloe… Better late than never I guess??? Especially considering how she’s been acting and how he hasn’t held her accountable for it until now but hooray, he made some progress I guess. Also, I can’t believe you actually put: “Adrien never “stands up” for bullies. He lets them get away with some bad stuff, I’ll admit that. But he never defended Chloe’s behavior.” Like what?  You do know that him doing nothing about it is him inherently supporting and encouraging that behavior, right? Because if she’s not held accountable, she’ll believe what she’s doing is fine. Also, yes he did defend Chloe and Lila when he stood up to Marinete and Ladybug about celebrating her leaving and Ladybug chewing Lila out about lying about her. And he still expects Marinette to take the high road even after realizing that Lila isn’t just lying for attention and actually wants Ladybug dead. Like after that, he should have taken it seriously and started helping Marinette to expose Lila. Especially after she got Marinette expelled. He may not have had evidence to disprove Lila, but he could have told his friends about what happened between Lila and Ladybug. He could have even told Alya to ask Ladybug herself and get an official statement, or to even ask Chat Noir. But he didn’t. He’d still rather keep the peace.  And no, it’s not overkill for them to be “throwing a rager” over Chloe leaving. Do you have any idea how she affected their lives on a day to day basis? And not just the students, but the teachers as well! And the only reason she had that much power was because her father is the mayor and could make their lives very difficult. She literally called the fire department to get Marinette in trouble, and got out of the punishment for the whole school by threatening to call her father. The rest of the students had to clean the school as punishment for something they didn’t do. Or how she tried to steal Marinette’s design and frame Marinette to be the thief. If Marinette hadn’t been an amazing designer she might have gotten into real trouble. Or what about Chloe forcing Nino to include her in the script and changing it to what she wanted by calling her father? How is it overkill to be relieved an happy to finally be free of Chloe’s power tripping? Season 5 I can’t speak much about since I haven’t been watching it. I’m just sick of how they framed things to be Marinette’s fault in the season 4 finale when it had to be two villains in order to get the miraculous. One that influenced her decisions, and another who is a complete doppelganger of the boy she likes and wasn’t even expecting to be betrayed like she was. Coincidentally it’s when she has a panic attack that people took that specific one seriously after the other ones were taken as a joke. And yeah, Marinette has flaws, but Marinette salters never talk about how she apologizes or makes up for her mistakes. And they’ll condemn for the wind blowing wrong if that’s what it takes to spread hate. I’ve literally had someone refuse to look at facts, because they wanted to keep believing that Marinette in Puppeteer 2, knew there was an akuma and that Adrien was frozen by it, and that she kissed him anyway, which is BLATANTLY FALSE. Adrien stans do that! They spread misinformation and then get upset when you tell them otherwise with facts to back it up! I’ve seen it! And God forbid Marinette has a video that disproves all of the negative things said about her with facts to back it up, because then the Adrien stans swarm the comments and post hate. Or how some videos are framed as Marinette positively but are actually backhanded comments blaming her for everything. Don’t believe me? I can literally post the links to one of the only ACTUAL Marinette positive videos on youtube, and show you how Adrien stans have come out of the woodwork to post hate. 

I’m sorry but your opinions literally cannot be upheld in the face of the facts. I’m sorry but they can’t. Despite his background Adrien has learned how to operate in social environments and as a superhero he has learned what is right and what’s wrong. But he’s done a loooottt of things that he’s never apologized for that got people hurt and still get people hurt to this day. His behavior in battles puts them in danger and his behavior in school allows people like Lila and Chloe to run rampant and thrive when he could hold at least Chloe accountable. And while I guess he did, it’s kinda too little too late. He let a prime opportunity go by where he could have helped Marinette expose Lila in Chameleon and because he took sympathy, now Lila can work successfully to turn the class against Marinette.  Most Adrien stans won’t hold him accountable, and that’s evidenced by the amount of love he gets on every platform versus how much hate Marinette gets on every platform.  The facts don’t lie. Period. 

You think Adrien doesn’t go through bad stuff? He’s literally an abused child. He has his freedoms revoked on a regular basis fir no reason at all other than because his dad says so. He’s treated as an employee at best and an object at worst. That’s not his fault. So don’t say Adrien doesn’t get punished unfairly by the universe and act like his life is perfect just because he’s not the main focus of the show. The reason he doesn’t get consequences for things you say is because only Marinette is given that privilege. And even with all the consequences she gets, at least she’s still framed as a good person who deserves happiness. Unlike how salters act like Adrien’s mistakes means he deserves to burn in hell.

Do not act like you are the underdogs of this fandom. The most popular fanfics are ones where Adrien and Alya have their whole lives ruined forever for mistakes that are twisted and overblown by the fandom. Heck, I once posted something about Marinette’s flaws while ending it with that I don’t hate Marinette or condone Adrien’s behavior over hers, and someone left a message telling me to kill myself. The Marinette salt is a REACTION to all you salters demonizing Adrien for acting like an abused child when he IS one. If you got a problem with Marinette sat, it’s your own fault for being so harsh on kids acting like kids.

Lila did not “manipulate” anyone in Volpina. At that point, all she was doing was telling wild stories. The bullying and manipulating did not start until Chameleon aired. The worst thing Lila did in that episode was make ONE backhanded comment to ONE person. And for that, Ladybug straight up insulted her and tore her to pieces until she cried. And that was BEFORE she started bullying anyone.

Adrien: No, I think it’s terrible. How can you celebrate a thing like that?

Marinette: But, Chloe’s a total brat to everyone, she was useless anyway.

Notice how Marinette doesn’t care about the part in the speech that’s actually meant to shame her. She doesn’t even bring up all the bad stuff Chloe did specifically, just that she was bad.

Adrien: No one’s useless, not even Chloe. When I was little and wasn’t allowed out, she was the only friend I had.

I think Adrien feels like he owes some sort of debt to Chloe. She supported him when he was all alone, now he thinks it’s her turn to support her. She was his only friend for so long, and it’s hard fir him to believe that there isn’t more to her. After all, maybe she just needs encouragement to bring out the side she only shows to him. It’s not perfect logic, but it’s not totally defunct, either. Different people react differently to different methods. Adrien just needed a little more time to figure that out.

And even though he DID mess up there, even if from a certain standpoint his actions were understandable, can’t we just accept it as that? A mistake by a good person? Adrien has done so many wonderful things. He boosted Ladybug’s confidence when she was at her lowest. He gave up the videogame place when he had rightfully earned it, when he did it for the right reasons whereas Marinette just did it to hang out with her crush. He used his fame to save the ice rink in Frozer. He made a deal with the devil to clear Marinette’s name when she was framed. He saved Marinette from an akuma in Chat Blanc. He ran all around Paris to accept defeat to Kagami in person, when he could have just called or gotten the teacher to call her. When she had a panic attack over her stolen yoyo in s4, he helped calm her down and get her to a safe place to transform—WITHOUT internally struggling whether or not to peek.

Just what good does bashing Adrien for his mistakes do anyway? Does it change the show? Does it improve Marinette’s luck? No. It just spreads negativity throughout the fandom and makes people feel bad. At least the Marinette salt is LESSENING the negativity in this fandom by countering a balance.

Like Marinette, Adrien has done many great things. But no one in this fandom focuses on those. They just focus on the bad things. Adrien Agreste is a GOOD PERSON. And just because he doesn’t get the focus or opportunity that Marinette receives, should NOT take away from that.

Once again, you’re putting words in my mouth because I never said that Adrien doesn’t go through bad things. Just can’t help spread misinformation huh? And guess what? How his father treats him is not something anyone is responsible for except Gabriel and the guardians around him who let it happen. And I never said Adrien doesn’t get punished unfairly by the universe. Because why would the universe matter in this situation?  I’m saying and have ALWAYS SAID, and get this through your head, that Adrien doesn’t get consequences FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS. Not the actions of his father, or anyone else. His OWN ACTIONS. The things he does himself. Like I’m starting to believe you have some sort of reading comprehension problem because in no way did I say anything about him being dealt a bad hand by the universe and him suffering for it. That’s nowhere near related to this debate.  Not the underdogs? Excuse me? Have you been on the internet? Literally EVERY PLATFORM is dominated by Adrien Stans. Every single one. So yeah, Marinette stans ARE the underdogs. And also, the reason some of the most popular fics are salt about Adrien and Alya, is because Marinette fans got SICK of how she got treated, and it all came to a head with Chameleon. Its literally catharsis from the shitty writing from the show. Because the only way for Marinette to get any kind of justice in this fandom, is for it’s own fans to write it.  And as for Marinette thinking Chloe was a brat and useless? Um, yeah. She’s not wrong. Marinette has had to deal with Chloe since kindergarten. Chloe literally declines to contribute to anything unless there’s something in it for her or she takes it over by screaming for her father. If anything, it’s Marinette that knows Chloe better than Adrien, because even he was stunned when Chloe put gum on Marinette’s seat. And Marinette doesn’t have to list something specifically. The list of bad things Chloe has done is substantial. It would be easier to list the good things she’s done, and that’s if it was genuine and not to make herself look good. Chloe is only nice to Adrien because he’s rich and famous. And yeah they grew up together, but he still mostly saw her putting on an act of kindness because she liked him. Everyone else had to deal with the real Chloe, a useless brat who likes to make other’s lives difficult just because she can. And sure she’s had her sensitive moments, but in the end, it doesn’t outweigh what she’s done. And I’m not sorry to say this, but the way she treated the others is more important than how nice she was to Adrien. She’s hurt too many people. Her being nice to only him doesn’t cut it, oldest friend or not. He may feel like he owes her, but even your friends need to be held accountable, and he failed to do that for a very long time, and I’m talking about after he got to school and learned just how bad she acted.  Also, nobody should be telling you to kill yourself. That’s bad and death threats are not something I support.  And yeah Adrien has done good things. But don’t frame what Marinette did as bad just because she entered because she wanted to hang out with Adrien. That’s not a bad thing. She played fairly and won fairly. PERIOD. And the reason he had to make a deal with the devil to get Marinette back in school is because he didn’t help Marinette expose Lila at the ending of Chameleon, or any other time. Him telling Marinette to keep quiet about it had negative consequences for MARINETTE, and not him. The reason why Marinette was going to be akumatized in Chat Blanc is because he decided to date her after he found out she was Ladybug. Those are direct consequences and guess who ended up dying? M A R I N E T T E. Along with everyone else. And then he was left alone. And you know who corrected that? Marinette. Who once again had to give up credit for a gift she made because she was pressured to give it to him by her friends. Marinette had to pay the price at least 3-4 times because she was either pressured or because of Adrien’s actions. And the consequences of his actions are erased because she fixed it. Him running around Paris to accept defeat literally did nothing because he was the target the entire time, and literally no one would have been able to call her because they didn’t have that information yet and her mother didn’t allow her to have other people’s numbers then.  The reason why people don’t pay attention to the good he does is because outside of being a superhero, there’s not much of it, and because he gets no consequences when he does something wrong and Marinette is often correcting them or blamed for them. And whether he gets more focus or not, it doesn’t change how much the fandom loves him and loves to hate Marinette. Do. Your. Research. Look at the facts. Do anything else except spread misinformation and put words into other people’s mouths. 

Oh and I almost forgot.  Lying IS manipulation. It’s intentionally saying something false in order to make someone believe their statement is true. That’s the whole point of a lie. Adrien stans are worse than the brain fog that’s intentionally there to make Lila’s lies seem more powerful. There is clearly a lack of common sense here. 

i find it genuinely hilarious how this started as a post saying “hey! if someone needs to be held down for u to kiss them, u shouldn’t continue trying to kiss them!” and devolved into a fight on… uh… whether adrien stans or marinette stans suck worse?

Nothing sucks about correcting misinformation, which is something a lot of this fandom tend to do to make certain supporters of a character look bad. At the very least I make sure to have evidence of what I’m saying to back up my claims. If you don’t like the conversation just keep scrolling.

Okay *sigh* this scene in itself has many problems. And I’m gonna give this my thoughts.

I just really dislike this scene. Why does he keep tryna kiss her after clearly seeing that she is uncomfortable?! Before anyone says anything I know that what Adrien is doing is La bise. We’ve seen it with Marinette and Chloe back in Despair Bear. But however that doesn’t excuse what he is doing because Marinette clearly doesn’t want to so why must he continue?

I mean like if you are meeting up with your friend and you try to give them a hug as a sign of friendlyness, but the person you are trying yo get in contact with backs away immediately, would you keep hugging them?

It was fine the first time, nothing wrong there. Then the second time he tries it again and that’s fine because mabye he didn’t get the hint. But the third time? Absolutely not! This dude clearly doesn’t know what boundaries are… (well considering how he is Chat Noir it shouldn’t be surprising am I right?) And don’t even get me started on Alya. She fucking restrians Marinette from backing away and I thought she was getting some sort of development during season 4 ;-;. Why the fuck is she so pushy this episode.

Like what even is this writing?

You wanna talk about not taking a hint? Adrien tells Marinette flat out that he loves someone else, and she still continues to stalk him and fangirl over his scent and bully other girls to keep him to herself.

You shouldn’t even NEED a hint to know that someone isn’t comfortable with you stalking them and breaking into their house.

Yes, Adrien is super dense, but is Marinette really any better in terms of romance? How is it fair that Adrien is punished for being pushy while Marinette is pardoned for literally breaking the law?!

And as for Alya, Marinette is always nervous when it comes to Adrien. She just thought Marinette wanted the kiss but was just being her usual spazz self that she always is around the boy.

That girl is a few berries short of a picnic, and her personality switched up so much it’s impossible to tell what she’s okay with and what she’s not okay with.

You left out the part at the end of the episode where she was going to give him up and take down his picture, but Tikki basically encouraged her not to. It is literally because of Tikki’s interference that Marinette still had an interest in Adrien at the end of that episode, because Tikki knows Adrien’s identity so she’s trying to play matchmaker.

Go ahead, look it up.

It’s there.

Also in case you didn’t know this. Alya holding Marinette down to force her to get a kiss is absolutely wrong and always will be unacceptable. There is no excuse for that. I don’t care how much of a spazz Marinette is, you don’t do that ever. It’s assault. PERIOD.

So Marinette stalks Adrien and invades every part of privacy he has and bullies other girls for the sake of her “rivalry” with them (I say it like that because Marinette bobbles the ball so much with Adrien it’s no wonder he took four seasons for their friendship to reach love level, when he’d already been on close terms with literally everyone in the class after a couple of months) for four seasons, and Tikki interferes ONE TIME, amd now it’s all her fault. I have my own qualms with Tikki, but I’m not blaming her for Marinette getting hooked back on Adrien.

Did Tikki interfere after Marinette broke up with Luka? Or after Frozer but before Backwarder and Animaestro when she schemed against Kagami after saying she wanted Adrien to be happy no matter what he chose? No, she didn’t. Obviously, the writers are gonna keep Marinette and Adrien in love, no matter how unhealthy things get, for the sake of status quo.

Besides, I’m not talking about how Marinette never gives up on Adrien, not entirely. I’m talking about how she STALKS HIM PLACES, BREAKS INTO HIS HOUSE, and BULLIES innocent girls for the sake of love rivalries (honestly, and people wonder why the class assumes her grudge against Lila has to do with jealousy).

Yes, maybe what Alya did is wrong. But her heart was in the right place. And the point is, Marinette has done far worse in the series than Alya and Adrien combined in this scene alone. Say what you want about them, but Marinette is no better. I don’t care how many favors she’s done for Adrien, or if he’s not aware of her misdeeds. Her breaking into his house and oogling his personal belongings is absolutely wrong and will always be unacceptable. Her stalking him and keeping his schedule to know where he is every minute of the day is absolutely wrong and will always be unacceptable. Her bullying other girls who Adrien so much as smiles at is absolutely wring and will always be unacceptable. It is unhealthy and damaging and just plain wrong. PERIOD.

First of all, you can’t stalk someone you’ve been trying to get over since Season 2. That word has been thrown around so much it’s lost any kind of meaning. In Frozer, when Marinette tried to give up on him, her friends were upset with her and said they weren’t going to let her give up on him. And there’s more instances of her friends pushing her into interacting with Adrien when she says she’s not ready.

Marinette is usually too nervous to interact with Adrien on her own, so often in fact that Alya is usually the one that lets her know where Adrien is because she has Nino to tell her. She even bullied Nino into asking Adrien to invite her and Marinette to the wax museum in Puppeteer 2 when Marinette turned her down because she was babysitting. So those places you say Marinette stalks him to, she is often taken there by Alya or it’s Alya who lets her know he’s there and forces her to go. In fact this is on brand for Alya to do!

She did the same thing in Stormy Weather in season 1, Kung Food when she called Adrien without asking Marinette if it was okay to be the one to help her with the translation between her and her great uncle. She even tried to force Marinette into an elevator with Adrien in Optigami and Marinette literally had to put her hands and feet on the wall to stop her, and this was AFTER she’d already told Alya she wanted to move on from Adrien!

Now I’m not gonna lie, Marinette has done some things “on her own” that were wrong. But I put that in quotation marks because usually someone else is involved or influenced her actions, like when she went into his house in Cat Blanc. She was pressured to go by her friends after she’d already felt unsure and got screamed at by Rose and threatened with being shut out of their group until she gave him the gift which was so out of pocket. She was mad because she lost a bet Marinette wasn’t even involved in or knew about and she took her anger out on her. Marinette even told Tikki after she tried the normal way to give Adrien the gift, “You heard Rose, I can’t back out.” Look up the episode, she literally says this and did this because she felt like she didn’t have a choice. Her obsession is clearly wrong, but she never stalked him.

Or in the case of the movie premier, Chloe influenced her and when Marinette’s anxiety gets involved she doesn’t think clearly, but notice how she still came to her senses and refused to take any further part. And let’s not say she bullied girls, cuz the only one she really had a rivalry with when it came to Adrien was Kagami, and she wasn’t very nice to Marinette either. She assumed Adrien liked Marinette and tended to give her mean looks or side eyes even though Marinette hadn’t even said anything to her.

Even in Frozer Kagami purposely showed off just to show Adrien she was better than her. Marinette came there as support for Adrien even though it hurt her. And when Marinette realized Kagami wasn’t that bad, they were able to put things aside and become friends. She didn’t have a rivalry with Chloe over Adrien, because it was clear to literally everyone that Adrien didn’t see Chloe that way at all, and her main gripe was that Chloe was a huge bully. Same with Lila, she’s not jealous nor did she bully Lila, she was justifiably pissed off that this girl was lying and manipulating her friends, not to mention slandering her superhero persona to make herself look better. So again, what “girls” is she bullying?

Alya holding Marinette down in order to force Marinette to receive a kiss from Adrien, LITERALLY proves she’s not a stalker. A stalker doesn’t concede, and Marinette has tried, many times but is often forced back into pursuing Adrien by the narrative. Calling Marinette a stalker, is like calling someone greedy when they are being forced to eat by someone else. It doesn’t make sense to call she that when her friends are forcing her to interact, i.e., Alya holding Marinette down in that photo.

So like I said, it’s bad. PERIOD. Not “maybe” bad. Definitely bad.

And everything I said you can look up for yourself in the episodes which are canon facts.

Typical Marinette stan. Marinette can’t do anything wrong on her own, and when she does, it’s someone else’s fault. The problem is, you keep clamouring for Adrien and Alya and everyone else to take responsibility for their action, but when Marinette screws up, you make every excuse under the sun for her.

I’m sorry, did Alya tell Marinette to stalk Adrien in Volpina or Oni-Chan? No, Marinette chose to do that. In the latter, she even tried to spy on then and break into his house! Alya wasn’t part of THAT decison, now was she?

Okay, so Rose pushed her to leave her gift there. Marinette could have just told her that Gabriel wouldn’t let her in, that’d be understandable. And even if she was pressured, Marinette could have just left it there. The pressure didn’t make Marinette oogle his stuff like she was in a museum, or FRICKIN SMELL HIS BED. That’s just gross.

Oh, boo hoo. Kagami was a little cold towards Marinette, so Marinette is perfectly justified in trying to male her sit in cake and humiliate her at a big public event. No, that wasn’t bullying at all. FYI Kagami wasn’t trying to be mean to Marinette. She was calling Marinette out on how she was her own worst enemy. A common misinterpretation from that Kagami line is that she was trying to spite Marinette. Instead, Kagami was saying, “I know you like Adrien, but I like him, too, and I’m not gonna just sit around and wait for you to get over yourself while you fumble the ball. So if you want him, you’ll have to win him from me fair and square, and that means you have to get over whatever it is you’ve got going on.” Kagami knows Marinette likes him, but she likes him, too, and she’s not gonna bow out out of curtsey, especially when Marinette can’t seem to get over her ditzy ways around him.

And she definitely wasn’t bullying Lila in Volpina. Before you say anything, Volpina was BEFORE Lila started seeing Marinette as an enemy. Marinette is the one who threw the first rock as Ladybug. The only thing Lila did wrong to Marinette in Volpina was flirt with her crush and lie about being a superhero, and make ONE flimsy little backhanded comment. And for that, Ladybug humiliated her and insulted her cruelly in front of someone she knew she liked. Even if you argue it was over the comment and not the flirting, what Ladybug did was excessively cruel for just one little comment that wasn’t even intended to say to her face.

What you’re saying is, everyone else in this show is capable of making bad decisions on their own EXCEPT Marinette. Some of these people have good intentions when they get Marinette, like try to push her out of her comfirt zone or get her to seize the moment, but when Marinette goes to the extremes, it’s their fault. Just because Alya has tried to get Marinette out of her comfort zone and talk to Adrien, it’s her faukt when Marinette stalks Adrien places. Just because Rose got sick of watching Marinette bobble the ball with Adrien and pushed her to confess, it’s her fault that Marinette smelled his bed. Just because Chloe suggested that they hurt Kagami, it’s her fault Marinette joined, and since Kagami was a little bit icy to her, it’s perfectly justified.

Hate to burst your bubble, but Marinette is not being corrupted by these people. These people may push her, but it’s ultimately her decision whether she goes too far, or when she joins in a bad thing. Marinette is stubborn and assertive and confident, which makes it pretty hard for me to believe that these people could really get her to do anything unless she really wanted to. Alya may have pushed a little, but Marinette CHOSE to stalk Adrien places. Rose may have pushed a little, but Marinette CHOSE to oogle his bedroom stuff and smell his bed. Chloe may have pushed a little, but Marinette CHOSE to join her scheme, just to hurt Kagami, just over a cold shoulder.

At the end of the day, everything Marinette does is HER choice. She doesn’t have to give inti them, and she’s so assertive that I seriously doubt she would give in if she really felt so strongly about it. The sad part is, the decisions she usually does try to make on her own, without even so much as a suggestion from others, she never follows through on.

Marinette always says she’s trying to get over Adrien, but she always backtracks on it. She constantly goes back and forth between trying to get over him and then trying to win him over again. Is it any wonder Alya believes this time won’t be any different than the others? Marinette may “concede” from time to time, but it never sticks. She always goes back to chasing Adrien. When all is sad and done, that is HER decision, not anyone else, and just because some people encourage her, does not take away from the responsibility of her own conscious choices.

And if if she does concede, conceding doesn’t mean she’s not a stalker. If she has stalked someone or broken into their house, she is a stalker. PERIOD.

Typical Adrien Stan, intentionally spreading misinformation and just straight up lying because much of what you just claimed I said, was not what I said at all. But I shouldn’t be surprised, because that’s typical for Adrien Stans. Can’t handle canon facts so they have to make up things in order for Marinette to be hated even more.  First of all, I will admit in the first part of the episode of Volpina, Marinette may have been a little jealous. And I say little, because when she found out Lila was lying about knowing her from watching Alya’s video on the Ladyblog, she became concerned. She actually said out loud if they were being hypnotized by her. And when she followed her to the park, that was TIKKI’S idea. She told Marinette to follow Lila because of the book. After that first part, she was no longer jealous and just concerned because Lila was LYING. She was slandering Ladybug. That’s not a small comment, especially when Alya so easily put what Lila was saying on the Ladyblog without any proper research.  Second of all, I said someone else was “usually” involved when it comes to Marinette interacting with Adrien. Not that they always were, or that she’s never done things alone without another’s influence, because she has. And when she makes a mistake, she takes responsibility, which is unlike Adrien and Alya. Alya literally forced Juleka out of Marinette’s photoshoot and Juleka blamed Marinette for it, which makes no sense since Marinette did her best to try and comfort Juleka when she was panicking. But Alya didn’t catch any heat at all from that, especially when SHE was the one who had invited Adrien to the photoshoot against Marinette’s wishes! And don’t get me started on how Adrien just gets away with stuff all the time. He literally pouts while Paris is drowning and catches NO heat for it at all. And he’s done this several times but you don’t see him apologizing nearly as often as Marinette has, especially when it’s often the case that Marinette didn’t do anything wrong. I can literally come up with dozens of examples of how Marinette apologized for something that wasn’t even her fault, or she was blamed for something that wasn’t her fault. Dozens, if not more.  Also, do you know what Peer Pressure is? Because Lila is using that to turn the class against Marinette by making herself the victim. Here I’ll post the definition since you can’t seem to bother to actually learn what a stalker is by definition: Peer pressure is when you are influenced by other people (your peers) to act in a certain way. If you’re with friends who are doing something that you typically would not do and they convince you to do what they are doing, that is an example of peer pressure. Let’s take a look at just how influential peers can be. The way pressure is applied by peers can vary. A peer might pressure you directly by asking you to do something, or they might tease or coax you so that you will fall in line with their behavior. They may not say anything at all; instead, they may pressure you by treating you as an outcast or by ignoring you. stalk·er[ˈstôkər]NOUNa person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention. Now, remember when I said Rose threatened that Marinette couldn’t hang out with them unless she gave it to him? That’s peer pressure. Marinette felt pressured enough that she felt she couldn’t leave or back out. She said, And I quote,  “No, you heard what Rose said, I can’t back out again.”  As for a stalker, when does Marinette harass Adrien? She often times makes it her business to stay away from and has to be pressured by her friends to interact with him. Is she obsessed? Yes. Does he know that? No. You know what he thought? That she was a fan, and was actually happy that she was. In fact Adrien doesn’t mind Marinette’s company at all and has stated that she is very important to him. When Marinette went after him and Lila in Oni-chan, Marinette stated that she was worried Lila was going to hurt someone. It wasn’t about going after Adrien, it was about stopping Lila from hurting people with her lies. Which came to fruition because she got Kagami akumatized! Did she do it the right way? No. She wasn’t thinking clearly and was only concerned with stopping Lila and warning Adrien. She wasn’t jealous. But typical Adrien stan just ignores the facts because it doesn’t fit your narrative despite the fact that what I’m saying is literally backed up by canon.  The fact that Marinette has been peer pressured into continuing to pursue Adrien is PROOF that she’s not a stalker! She has gone to great lengths to try and get over him, but is always swayed not to. And now you want to still call her a stalker, despite the fact that she had to be HELD DOWN in order for Adrien to try and kiss her. What stalker has to be held down so that a kiss from the person they are “supposedly stalking” can be forced on them by their own best friend? 

NONE, because she’s not a stalker.  Stalkers don’t give up. Marinette has multiple times and has been swayed back into liking him. In fact most of her shenanigans are done purely for comedy, like how she freaks out and falls when Adrien surprises her. And the continuity is so bad in this show and the movies that whenever she makes any kind of progress it is slid back so that it appears she hasn’t progressed at all, despite that not being the case! You can’t force someone to stalk someone else! That’s not how stalkers work! It’s why I don’t call her a stalker for going into Adrien’s house, because she was pressured to do it when all the other viable alternatives weren’t there! She couldn’t just leave the gift there! If she had it wouldn’t have had the note, just like the last time she tried to send him a card, or when Nathalie just straight threw away her note in the Bubbler. In that episode, by the way, Alya broke into the mansion in order to find Marinette’s gift and led her to it so she could sign it.  Also, would you call all the other people stalkers in Party Crasher because technically most of the people who were there at that party, were not invited into the house and not supposed to be there. Are they stalkers? No. They aren’t.  And in fact, Adrien wanted Marinette there, whereas Nino told Adrien no because it was just supposed to be the guys, and Adrien’ replies, “But isn’t Marinette one of my guys?” And in fact when Marinette went there because she thought the boys were up to something because Gabriel “left” she went to investigate. When Adrien discovered who she was, he actually chuckled a bit and smiled. He didn’t mind that she was there at all.  So like I said, she’s not a stalker.  As for Kagami, wow, you’re really reaching. There were plenty of times, before that moment in Frozer, and after that episode that Kagami either side eyed or straight glared at Marinette when Marinette didn’t say or do anything to her. All of that show off stuff she did happened before Marinette fell, when she was enjoying her time with Luka. Remember, she only went there because Adrien said he didn’t think he could go by himself. And Marinette went there, breaking her own heart, to be Adrien’s moral support because he needed her. In Backwarder, when she went to give him the note to confess, she hadn’t even acknowledged Kagami or looked at her bad, but the moment she turns her back, Kagami glares at her. Even side eyes Adrien when he’s reading the note Marinette gave him. The fact that Marinette even breaks her own heart in Miracle Queen, despite her lapse in judgement because feelings are hard, she respected that Adrien and Kagami were together. And those “ditzy” behaviors are actually Marinette’s crippling anxiety that’s often used as a punchline instead of it being taken seriously.  But please, I implore you, actually re-watch the episodes and back up your statements with ACTUAL FACTS. Because no matter how many times you try to spread misinformation, the facts ALWAYS outweigh an opinion. And I have no problem backing up mine. Do your research.  PERIOD. 

It’s like you ignored everything I just said. I guess I have to spell it out for you.

Marinette OOGLED ADRIEN’S STUFF like she was in a frickin’ MUSEUM. She TOUCHED HIS DESK. She LAID DOWN IN HIS BED AND SMELLED HIS F***ING PILLOWS.

Are you saying just because Adrien doesn’t know about any of this, that makes it okay?!?! If a man breaks into a woman’s house and oogles her things and smells her bed and she never finds out, does that make it okay?!?! No. It doesn’t.

Even if she was peer pressured to deliver the gift, that has nothing to do with her admiring and touching Adrien’s personal belongings. Even with the pressure, Marinette just had to leave the note. The oogling and touching and laying down in his bed and smelling his pillows were all completely unnecessary to the mission!

And no amount of peer pressure should EVER justify violating the law. It is WRONG. Period. And if Marinette has that little faith in her friendships, that they wouldn’t understand when the only viable option was breaking and entering, than she’s the problem. Just because she was under pressure doesn’t make it okay. That is always another option besides breaking the law.

Lila’s backhanded comment was to Adrien ONLY. She said to ONE person. It wasn’t in the public interview. Therefore, it barely counts as slander, if it even counts at all. Ladybug wasn’t concerned for Lila at all. She was just being petty. And as for Oni-Chan, well, that proves that as much as Marinette adores Adrien, she doesn’t respect or trust him. If she did, she would have simply warned him about Lila verbally, or at the very least shot him a text. But somehow, she decides it’d be a better idea to follow them there and spy on him through his window?! Don’t remember Alya or Tikki pressuring her to do THAT!

As for Alya and Adrien, yes, they’ve makes mistakes, and this one is kind of questionable, at best. But the point I’m trying to make is that as bad as it is, it really is no better than all the other shit Marinette’s pulled in the series. And Syren? You guys always say that Chat Noir never obeys Ladybug. Except this time, HE DID. Ladybug told him to stay put. And even if she hadn’t, the city had already been submerged underwater fir twenty minutes by the time they split. I’m pretty sure anyone who was in danger of drowning would have already drowned long before they even met up.

You wanna talk about not getting punished for mistakes? Marinette tried to HUMILIATE Kagami, by making her sit in cake, at a big fancy party with a ton of VIP guests, just because she was getting cozy with Adrien. All the dirty looks in the world are nowhere near on the same level as pulling a public prank on someone, setting them up to be embarrassed at a huge star-studded event, in front of dozens of A-list celebs around and ruining special clothes that I do not doubt were very expensive. And yet, not only was Marinette not punished for this, she was even REWARDED for it with a seat next to Adrien, which was what she wanted all along. Yes, sometimes, she gets punished for stuff that’s not her fault. But at the same time, she also gets away completely unscathed fir stuff that’s COMPLETELY her fault. So I don’t think she gets TOO raw a deal in the series.

Is a stalker, was a stalker. The point is, what Adrien and Alya did just here, isn’t any better than what Marinette has done in the past. You can’t crucify them while pardoning Marinette. It’s a double standard.

P E R I O D.

Wooooowww I never said that it was okay at all. In fact I said her obsession was not okay multiple times and that includes what she did. And you wanna talk about double standards? Guess who sniffed first? ADRIEN. As Chat Noir, in Animan and everyone thought it was cute.

And Marinette only worked with Chloe because Chloe made Marinette’s anxiety skyrocket by putting untrue thoughts into her head like Kagami was going to steal him away and all that other nonsense. And while Marinette did try to do that, you know what you refuse to acknowledge? That she backed out. That she realized what she was doing was wrong and refused to participate any longer.

And how can you even speak about double standards when Adrien gets away with everything problematic he does? Marinette is always expected to be the bigger person no matter how wronged she is, and no matter how much pressure is on her. Marinette can’t even enter a game competition, win fairly, something her sore loser opponent even said, and not be blamed. She apologized to Max for what? Beating him fairly? I’m sure he had friends who competed and he didn’t seem to feel bad at all about beating them. But because it’s Marinette he’s bitter and a sore loser. Even if Marinette was doing it to play with Adrien, who cares?! She barely got to have any one on one time with him because of his schedule. If she’d cheated that’s one thing, but she won fair and square on her own merits and still had to somehow apologize to Max because he lost.

And what about how Adrien caused Theo to be akumatized because he lied about him and Ladybug being together? Mind this was after multiple times of Marinette telling him she wasn’t into him. If anyone is harassing the other, it’s Adrien harassing Marinette as Chat Noir. Y’all act like he hasn’t made plans to get with Ladybug, all the whole being denied. That’s more creepy than anything because he can’t take no for an answer! He pouts and gets angry and bitter. And despite what you say about Marinette, at the very least she’s getting pressured into pursuing him. He on the other hand keeps going after her with no one pressuring him to do so. Even Plagg has told him that he needs to move on because she’s in love with someone else. He gets no consequences for his continued pursuit of Ladybug, even practically cheating on Kagami and wishing for an akuma so that he could see Ladybug! And you call Marinette the stalker?

And as for Syren no one blames Adrien for waiting for Ladybug, they blame him for threatening to quit because she refused to tell him information she wasn’t allowed to give him. That’s why people were pissed off.

And first of all, no one complains that he doesn’t obey her. People complain about him not taking his job seriously and when he keeps flirting and fooling around when there’s a battle going on. And there’s plenty of instances about that.

You literally have no other perspective. At the very least I can admit when Marinette makes mistakes and does stuff she shouldn’t have. Adrien Stan’s can’t stand to hear a bad word about Adrien, because the only thing that matters is that when he looks sad y’all are ready for war. Even looking at Adrien’s perspective, he’s not being the hero he should be. Like I can understand him having a shitty dad but he continually does things that go against the lessons he’s learned as a hero, like standing up for bullies and shaming the victims like Marinette in Malediktator when everyone was celebrating that Chloe, their long time bully was gone. He don’t care how many people she hurt, even when he knows what she’s like. He only cares that she was hurt, by her own stupid actions by the way, and that they were wrong to celebrate her being gone. He had no right, especially when he’s never had to deal with bullying in school like the others did. It’s okay to him if Chloe is a jerk because he lets her slide all the time, but he’ll shame her victims with the same energy he used to let her get away with it.

So like I said, and keep saying because you seem to conveniently keep refusing to see the facts that can be backed up by source material, Marinette was never a stalker. Get it through your head. Read the definition. If anyone is the stalker it’s Chat Noir, he fits the description to the letter.

PERIOD.

You didn’t say it was okay. You implied it. You tried to excuse Marinette’s actions by saying “oh, Adrien just thinks she’s a fan” when he’s unaware if the more extreme things she’s done. I’m pretty sure if Adrien knew all the stuff she did, he’d be creeped out.

You’re like a lawyer, trying to get through this loopholes. It’s not unwanted attention if he doesn’t know about the worst stuff, you say.

I can admit Adrien makes mistakes. The problem is, you guys act like these mistakes define him. You get upset at all these things Adrien does, when she has done the same thing and even worse. The difference between you and me is, Adrien stans START these conversations to attack Adrien. I latch onto defend them, because I know despite all his shortcomings, Adrien is a good person at heart and would do better if he knew better. You can admit Marinette makes mistakes and still love her, but Adrien makes mistakes and you vilify him for it. Honestly, if it wasn’t for all the hypocritical Marinette stans, I wouldn’t be constantly pointing out Marinette’s flaws all the time just to maintain some sort of balance, and we wouldn’t be having this conversation. I only post Marinette salt to remind people that she’s just as flawed as everyone else in the show, and therefore hating other characters while worshipping her is hypocritical.

Again, yes, Marinette is punished unfairly in the show sometimes for things that aren’t her fault. But I think it’s balanced out by the things that ARE her fault that gets away with. Did she get caught and punished for stealing his phone? For following him to his house? For breaking into his house? For spying on him? For trying to hurt Kagami? For smelling his stuff? Nope. She didn’t get punished for any of that. Besides, even with all the consequences she gets, Marinette still has a great life. She has two loving supportive parents, a bunch of loyal friends, guys chasing after her in and out of the mask, and she’s accomplished enough to be one step away from fashion designer fame, at only 15. You guys keep saying Marinette has it rough, but from what I see, she’s doing great. So O don’t think the series is THAT unfair to her.

Chat Noir is the stalker? Please. If he was really a stalker, how do you explain Lady WiFi? He was desperate to know who she was, and had a prime chance. Even Plagg, the one whose supposed to enforce the rule, was baffled he didn’t take it. But he didn’t. Because he respected Ladybug. If he was really a stalker, he would have abused his Miraculous to follow her so he could see her detransform. It would have been so easy for him. But he never does. Because even though he’s a little pushy at times, he respects her. And you think he doesn’t take his job seriously? Do you not see how many times he’s used himself as a human shield, or literally DIED so that she can get to the akuma?! Even if he does joke, do you think Marinette would do better with a partner who was completely serious? Hell no. That girl had anxiety, she needs someone to detract from the situation not add to it. She even said so himself that her favorite part about him was his sense of humor.

Adrien never “stands up” for bullies. He lets them get away with some bad stuff, I’ll admit that. But he never defended Chloe’s behavior. Yes, he was sad that she was leaving, but she was his only friend for so long, he has a right to mourn her. And besides, at that point, no matter how bratty Chloe was, she was still just a kid, and the whole school throwing a rager over her leaving is overkill. Plus, Marinette said she was useless, and therefore worthless. Again, a little harsh. As for Lila, he thought she was lying out of insecurity. Just because he didn’t assume the worst in her doesn’t mean he’s on her side, especially not after Ladybug. He straight out said it wasn’t okay that she hurt Marinette. And in Queen Banana, he finally stood up to Chloe and demanded she apologize to the class for trying ruin their film with her big ego.

See? I have facts to back up Adrien’s character, too. And I can admit that he makes mistakes, too. The difference is, I don’t make it sound like all his mistakes and flaws define him. At the end of the day, Marineyte and Adrien are human, and kids. They deserve equal treatment, and shouldn’t be subjected to double standards like this. They are both good kids trying to do their best, and should be held yo the same standards as each other. And given all the horrible mustakes made by the people who are supposed to be the heroes in this show, I’d say the standards for goodness in this show are unusually low.

Implications are not an assurance or a denial. It’s an assumption, and you know what people say about those.  So here you are again, spreading misinformation. Fact of the matter is, I did not say it, whether you think it’s “implied” or otherwise. My facts trump your “implication.” Period. So don’t put words in my mouth or try to explain what I mean because you clearly can’t help but frame things in a way that makes it look better for you.  I never have, nor will I ever endorse what Marinette did in Adrien’s room in Chat Blanc. You see those words? No implication at all. Get that through your head.  And it’s interesting that you say I’m like a lawyer when you’re the one trying to twist words like a sleazy defense attorney.  People hold those mistakes over Adrien’s head because he never gets consequences for them. If Marinette didn’t get consequences for her actions we’d be after her too! But she does! All the time! Even when it’s not her fault! And it’s this double standard of how no one cares when she’s sad or struggling but the moment Adrien looks sad, everyone wants to pull out their pitchforks and usually blame Marinette. She’s not responsible for his feelings, and don’t worry, I’m not implying you said that. It’s just a statement. I love Marinette because when she makes mistakes she makes up for them and actually learns something. Adrien doesn’t, and he gets away with what he did, usually at Marinette’s expense in one form or another. And using himself as a human shield is not something Marinette appreciates, at all. She literally screams at him in Lies, “You can’t keep doing this to me!” and then he just shrugs its off like it’s a joke. She lets it go because she’s relieved to have him back, but she also says “No, just crazy. Reckless.” It’s not something she likes, at all, so please stop talking about that as if his sacrifices are a positive thing. It’s not.  And yes, Chat Noir is a stalker. In that episode you mentioned, about him choosing not to see Ladybug’s identity? Yeah, he had to struggle with not doing it and he had to struggle HARD. The fact that it was even a struggle for him not to peek anyway, is a red flag. He doesn’t have to chase her down to find out her identity, in fact that would be a bad thing because it would cause Fu to take away their miraculous and he’d never be able to know. I’m not saying he knew about Fu yet, because neither of them did at that point. But I’m saying it would have ended badly. Plus why would he have to chase her down when he could see her every akuma attack and hit on her? Also, in Chat Blanc, since you wanna talk about what Marinette did in that episode, it’s crazy how the moment Adrien found out her identity, he immediately went to date her. With no thoughts as to the consequences. He didn’t care, he finally had his Ladybug.  When Marinette found out his identity in Ephemeral, do you know what she did? She hesitated. Felt conflicted, spent time thinking rationally, got good advice about it, thought about the consequences and eventually got comfortable enough to share her identity with him and they had a good friendship and relationship. And the only reason she even found out his identity, was because she was pressured to by Su Han. And when Luka told her what happened, they were able to save the day and she told Su Han off about it.  And it’s funny how you’re now saying that Marinette is unfairly punished in the show now that I posted actual evidence for it, because from what I can read from your previous responses, you don’t even mention that she gets unfairly punished. This is what happens when you have the facts.  Also yes, he does stand up for bullies. He stood up to Ladybug when she exposed Lila and revealed that she was manipulating people. He stood up to Marinette and shamed her and the others for being happy that Chloe was gone, completely dismissing her bad behavior because she’s “hurt”. It’s like he forgot that she nearly killed a train full of people. I still wish to this day, that Marinette would have mentioned that she and her parents were on the train that Chloe sabotaged and that they could have died. Maybe then he’d get a reality check about just how serious Chloe’s actions were, and how things could have turned out if he and Ladybug hadn’t stopped the train. And as for his actions in season 4 about breaking off his friendship with Chloe… Better late than never I guess??? Especially considering how she’s been acting and how he hasn’t held her accountable for it until now but hooray, he made some progress I guess. Also, I can’t believe you actually put: “Adrien never “stands up” for bullies. He lets them get away with some bad stuff, I’ll admit that. But he never defended Chloe’s behavior.” Like what?  You do know that him doing nothing about it is him inherently supporting and encouraging that behavior, right? Because if she’s not held accountable, she’ll believe what she’s doing is fine. Also, yes he did defend Chloe and Lila when he stood up to Marinete and Ladybug about celebrating her leaving and Ladybug chewing Lila out about lying about her. And he still expects Marinette to take the high road even after realizing that Lila isn’t just lying for attention and actually wants Ladybug dead. Like after that, he should have taken it seriously and started helping Marinette to expose Lila. Especially after she got Marinette expelled. He may not have had evidence to disprove Lila, but he could have told his friends about what happened between Lila and Ladybug. He could have even told Alya to ask Ladybug herself and get an official statement, or to even ask Chat Noir. But he didn’t. He’d still rather keep the peace.  And no, it’s not overkill for them to be “throwing a rager” over Chloe leaving. Do you have any idea how she affected their lives on a day to day basis? And not just the students, but the teachers as well! And the only reason she had that much power was because her father is the mayor and could make their lives very difficult. She literally called the fire department to get Marinette in trouble, and got out of the punishment for the whole school by threatening to call her father. The rest of the students had to clean the school as punishment for something they didn’t do. Or how she tried to steal Marinette’s design and frame Marinette to be the thief. If Marinette hadn’t been an amazing designer she might have gotten into real trouble. Or what about Chloe forcing Nino to include her in the script and changing it to what she wanted by calling her father? How is it overkill to be relieved an happy to finally be free of Chloe’s power tripping? Season 5 I can’t speak much about since I haven’t been watching it. I’m just sick of how they framed things to be Marinette’s fault in the season 4 finale when it had to be two villains in order to get the miraculous. One that influenced her decisions, and another who is a complete doppelganger of the boy she likes and wasn’t even expecting to be betrayed like she was. Coincidentally it’s when she has a panic attack that people took that specific one seriously after the other ones were taken as a joke. And yeah, Marinette has flaws, but Marinette salters never talk about how she apologizes or makes up for her mistakes. And they’ll condemn for the wind blowing wrong if that’s what it takes to spread hate. I’ve literally had someone refuse to look at facts, because they wanted to keep believing that Marinette in Puppeteer 2, knew there was an akuma and that Adrien was frozen by it, and that she kissed him anyway, which is BLATANTLY FALSE. Adrien stans do that! They spread misinformation and then get upset when you tell them otherwise with facts to back it up! I’ve seen it! And God forbid Marinette has a video that disproves all of the negative things said about her with facts to back it up, because then the Adrien stans swarm the comments and post hate. Or how some videos are framed as Marinette positively but are actually backhanded comments blaming her for everything. Don’t believe me? I can literally post the links to one of the only ACTUAL Marinette positive videos on youtube, and show you how Adrien stans have come out of the woodwork to post hate. 

I’m sorry but your opinions literally cannot be upheld in the face of the facts. I’m sorry but they can’t. Despite his background Adrien has learned how to operate in social environments and as a superhero he has learned what is right and what’s wrong. But he’s done a loooottt of things that he’s never apologized for that got people hurt and still get people hurt to this day. His behavior in battles puts them in danger and his behavior in school allows people like Lila and Chloe to run rampant and thrive when he could hold at least Chloe accountable. And while I guess he did, it’s kinda too little too late. He let a prime opportunity go by where he could have helped Marinette expose Lila in Chameleon and because he took sympathy, now Lila can work successfully to turn the class against Marinette.  Most Adrien stans won’t hold him accountable, and that’s evidenced by the amount of love he gets on every platform versus how much hate Marinette gets on every platform.  The facts don’t lie. Period. 

You think Adrien doesn’t go through bad stuff? He’s literally an abused child. He has his freedoms revoked on a regular basis fir no reason at all other than because his dad says so. He’s treated as an employee at best and an object at worst. That’s not his fault. So don’t say Adrien doesn’t get punished unfairly by the universe and act like his life is perfect just because he’s not the main focus of the show. The reason he doesn’t get consequences for things you say is because only Marinette is given that privilege. And even with all the consequences she gets, at least she’s still framed as a good person who deserves happiness. Unlike how salters act like Adrien’s mistakes means he deserves to burn in hell.

Do not act like you are the underdogs of this fandom. The most popular fanfics are ones where Adrien and Alya have their whole lives ruined forever for mistakes that are twisted and overblown by the fandom. Heck, I once posted something about Marinette’s flaws while ending it with that I don’t hate Marinette or condone Adrien’s behavior over hers, and someone left a message telling me to kill myself. The Marinette salt is a REACTION to all you salters demonizing Adrien for acting like an abused child when he IS one. If you got a problem with Marinette sat, it’s your own fault for being so harsh on kids acting like kids.

Lila did not “manipulate” anyone in Volpina. At that point, all she was doing was telling wild stories. The bullying and manipulating did not start until Chameleon aired. The worst thing Lila did in that episode was make ONE backhanded comment to ONE person. And for that, Ladybug straight up insulted her and tore her to pieces until she cried. And that was BEFORE she started bullying anyone.

Adrien: No, I think it’s terrible. How can you celebrate a thing like that?

Marinette: But, Chloe’s a total brat to everyone, she was useless anyway.

Notice how Marinette doesn’t care about the part in the speech that’s actually meant to shame her. She doesn’t even bring up all the bad stuff Chloe did specifically, just that she was bad.

Adrien: No one’s useless, not even Chloe. When I was little and wasn’t allowed out, she was the only friend I had.

I think Adrien feels like he owes some sort of debt to Chloe. She supported him when he was all alone, now he thinks it’s her turn to support her. She was his only friend for so long, and it’s hard fir him to believe that there isn’t more to her. After all, maybe she just needs encouragement to bring out the side she only shows to him. It’s not perfect logic, but it’s not totally defunct, either. Different people react differently to different methods. Adrien just needed a little more time to figure that out.

And even though he DID mess up there, even if from a certain standpoint his actions were understandable, can’t we just accept it as that? A mistake by a good person? Adrien has done so many wonderful things. He boosted Ladybug’s confidence when she was at her lowest. He gave up the videogame place when he had rightfully earned it, when he did it for the right reasons whereas Marinette just did it to hang out with her crush. He used his fame to save the ice rink in Frozer. He made a deal with the devil to clear Marinette’s name when she was framed. He saved Marinette from an akuma in Chat Blanc. He ran all around Paris to accept defeat to Kagami in person, when he could have just called or gotten the teacher to call her. When she had a panic attack over her stolen yoyo in s4, he helped calm her down and get her to a safe place to transform—WITHOUT internally struggling whether or not to peek.

Just what good does bashing Adrien for his mistakes do anyway? Does it change the show? Does it improve Marinette’s luck? No. It just spreads negativity throughout the fandom and makes people feel bad. At least the Marinette salt is LESSENING the negativity in this fandom by countering a balance.

Like Marinette, Adrien has done many great things. But no one in this fandom focuses on those. They just focus on the bad things. Adrien Agreste is a GOOD PERSON. And just because he doesn’t get the focus or opportunity that Marinette receives, should NOT take away from that.

Once again, you’re putting words in my mouth because I never said that Adrien doesn’t go through bad things. Just can’t help spread misinformation huh? And guess what? How his father treats him is not something anyone is responsible for except Gabriel and the guardians around him who let it happen. And I never said Adrien doesn’t get punished unfairly by the universe. Because why would the universe matter in this situation?  I’m saying and have ALWAYS SAID, and get this through your head, that Adrien doesn’t get consequences FOR HIS OWN ACTIONS. Not the actions of his father, or anyone else. His OWN ACTIONS. The things he does himself. Like I’m starting to believe you have some sort of reading comprehension problem because in no way did I say anything about him being dealt a bad hand by the universe and him suffering for it. That’s nowhere near related to this debate.  Not the underdogs? Excuse me? Have you been on the internet? Literally EVERY PLATFORM is dominated by Adrien Stans. Every single one. So yeah, Marinette stans ARE the underdogs. And also, the reason some of the most popular fics are salt about Adrien and Alya, is because Marinette fans got SICK of how she got treated, and it all came to a head with Chameleon. Its literally catharsis from the shitty writing from the show. Because the only way for Marinette to get any kind of justice in this fandom, is for it’s own fans to write it.  And as for Marinette thinking Chloe was a brat and useless? Um, yeah. She’s not wrong. Marinette has had to deal with Chloe since kindergarten. Chloe literally declines to contribute to anything unless there’s something in it for her or she takes it over by screaming for her father. If anything, it’s Marinette that knows Chloe better than Adrien, because even he was stunned when Chloe put gum on Marinette’s seat. And Marinette doesn’t have to list something specifically. The list of bad things Chloe has done is substantial. It would be easier to list the good things she’s done, and that’s if it was genuine and not to make herself look good. Chloe is only nice to Adrien because he’s rich and famous. And yeah they grew up together, but he still mostly saw her putting on an act of kindness because she liked him. Everyone else had to deal with the real Chloe, a useless brat who likes to make other’s lives difficult just because she can. And sure she’s had her sensitive moments, but in the end, it doesn’t outweigh what she’s done. And I’m not sorry to say this, but the way she treated the others is more important than how nice she was to Adrien. She’s hurt too many people. Her being nice to only him doesn’t cut it, oldest friend or not. He may feel like he owes her, but even your friends need to be held accountable, and he failed to do that for a very long time, and I’m talking about after he got to school and learned just how bad she acted.  Also, nobody should be telling you to kill yourself. That’s bad and death threats are not something I support.  And yeah Adrien has done good things. But don’t frame what Marinette did as bad just because she entered because she wanted to hang out with Adrien. That’s not a bad thing. She played fairly and won fairly. PERIOD. And the reason he had to make a deal with the devil to get Marinette back in school is because he didn’t help Marinette expose Lila at the ending of Chameleon, or any other time. Him telling Marinette to keep quiet about it had negative consequences for MARINETTE, and not him. The reason why Marinette was going to be akumatized in Chat Blanc is because he decided to date her after he found out she was Ladybug. Those are direct consequences and guess who ended up dying? M A R I N E T T E. Along with everyone else. And then he was left alone. And you know who corrected that? Marinette. Who once again had to give up credit for a gift she made because she was pressured to give it to him by her friends. Marinette had to pay the price at least 3-4 times because she was either pressured or because of Adrien’s actions. And the consequences of his actions are erased because she fixed it. Him running around Paris to accept defeat literally did nothing because he was the target the entire time, and literally no one would have been able to call her because they didn’t have that information yet and her mother didn’t allow her to have other people’s numbers then.  The reason why people don’t pay attention to the good he does is because outside of being a superhero, there’s not much of it, and because he gets no consequences when he does something wrong and Marinette is often correcting them or blamed for them. And whether he gets more focus or not, it doesn’t change how much the fandom loves him and loves to hate Marinette. Do. Your. Research. Look at the facts. Do anything else except spread misinformation and put words into other people’s mouths. 

Oh and I almost forgot.  Lying IS manipulation. It’s intentionally saying something false in order to make someone believe their statement is true. That’s the whole point of a lie. Adrien stans are worse than the brain fog that’s intentionally there to make Lila’s lies seem more powerful. There is clearly a lack of common sense here. 

Both of you are idiots( being truthful doesn’t mean nice)and both of you are right

Wow, no one called you out of your name or insulted you. If you don’t like the conversation, just keep scrolling.

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The Hell is this bullshit >:T its just a computer crashing get over it

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@hellsite-hall-of-fame

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i HAVE to reblog this to be the 100,000th note

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"Chat should get the chance to hand out miraculouses!!!"

Then he's gotta earn the right to do so and maybe start by telling Fu about the almanac or investigating his family's involvement with the miraculous

Only then he can try ripping Marinette's role as guardian-in-training from my cold dead hands

I did not think about this but yeah

Ok this is unfair. If Plagg, who should know about this stuff, didn’t think the book was all that important, why should Adrien?

okay so everything @flightfoot​ said and also he...he has earned the right to hand out miraculouses? he has done just as much as ladybug has? okay hes ended up being possessed a couple times but so? hes fought just as many akumas? and why would he know about the importance of the book? plagg didn’t and well...plagg was his only real guide in miraculous related stuff? and why would he investigate his family’s involvement in the miraculous? the only link he knew of was the book, which was in a safe with things related to his mother? he probably just assumed it was something his father thought would have been interesting to her? and okay yeah its miraculous related but...so? even if he had known just how important the book was, why would he assume his family had anything to do with it? he has no reason to believe his father knows what it is at all? and again, if he did, he didnt even know master fu existed for quite a while? hes practically a stranger?

Im really sorry this is so long im just kinda mad

Oh jeez you're right how silly of me to want his character to take initiative instead of just watching everything happen around him, never doing anything more than what the akuma of the day requires of him or showing any actual interest in what being a superhero really entails beyond acting as LB's shield. He is the Sunshine Boy that must be Protected At All Costs and he's perfect and it's the world around him that's Wrong so he should get Every Important Role the plot could possibly give him without making him the villain. It's obvious that unknowingly fighting against his father, who's try to cure his comatose mother, isn't enough to give him stake in the main plot.

Excuse me but why WOULDN’T finding this weird old book stuffed with coded information about secret powerful objects that (as of the episode wherein he finds the book) only He and Ladybug and Hawkmoth really know anything about which was hidden in a locked safe that only his father had access to behind a portrait of his mother...NOT lead to some questions on his part?

No, “Hey Dad, why do you have a safe full of stuff you won’t show me that are related to Mom?”

No, “Hey Dad, why do you have this book all about Miraculouses that you can’t even read?”

No, “Hey Plagg, I know I had to give that book back to my dad, but I think I should tell Ladybug about where I found it, or at least that it exists.”

Everything about the set up highly suggests that his family knows about the Miraculouses, is involved with the Miraculouses, and are related to the Miraculouses. Even if it doesn’t COMPLETELY point giant neon signs to them being Hawkmoth, it definitely points that they KNOW SOMETHING.

Adrien was handed this HUGE RED FLAG and instead of taking the lead and actually doing some investigating about it, he let the subject drop entirely because it made his dad upset, which is his dad’s default form of expression anyway. And if Marinette hadn’t followed him and Lila and if Marinette hadn’t dragged the book out of the trash and if Marinette hadn’t taken the book to Fu, Ladybug and the Guardian wouldn’t even know that it existed or that someone was in possession of such sensitive knowledge, because not only does Adrien do no follow up, he doesn’t even mention the book to Ladybug, because he either thinks covering for his dad is more important OR (and more likely) he hasn’t thought through the implications that someone besides the heroes even has the book.

Until Adrien starts taking the initiative to help their cause and actually defeat Hawkmoth, especially when he’s the one who’s being given all the hints as to what’s going on and ignoring them, then no. Chat doesn’t deserve to be handing out Miraculous’ instead of Ladybug.

I want to point out that contrary to statements from earlier posts, choosing people to hand Miraculous out too is not a “right”. It is a RESPONSIBILITY. One that Marinette has shown she can handle, and Adrien has shown he cannot—regardless of whatever reason Adrien may have. And we should not forget that the only reason he even gets as much information as he has is specifically BECAUSE Marinette vouched for him—which was due to him complaining about it rather than anything he himself did to prove he was ready. He already got a pass on one thing without earning it, and this outcry of it being “unfair” that he’s not given another is incredibly short-sighted and does NOTHING for his growth or character arc if he’s simply being HANDED these things he continues to not earn or in any way prove himself ready for.

Adrien has already shown himself to not only be inactive when it comes to stepping up and defending people, but also having an annoying tendency to focus on defending the wrong people when he actually DOES step up for anyone. He has, as previously noted, overlooked many major red flags and warning signs even when they are quite literally pointed out to him. He disregarded Ladybug’s suspicions in Volpina and brushed her off as being jealous. He allowed Lila and Chloe both to use and manipulate him. And even if we try to excuse him not being suspicious of his dad over the Miraculous Book, I for one don’t recall him approaching Ladybug to tell her that there IS such a book with all these pictures and info about people who are clearly past Miraculous users in the hands of someone who probably shouldn’t have it simply based on being a civilian—something he as part of a team should have done, ESPECIALLY before he started whining at her about being “left out of the loop”.

Do I want to see Chat giving out Miraculous? Yes. I think it would be awesome and open things up to wild hijinx that would honestly make the show more interesting. But I want him to earn that “right” and show himself ready for the responsibility rather than have it be yet another thing handed to him out of some strange obligation or attempt at appeasement to avoid another tantrum.

And if anyone wants to pull the “Adrien is an abuse victim” excuse for his inaction, I’m going to jump ahead of you by pointing out that 1) that still means he is inactive when he could have done something, 2) that he has a reason for why he doesn’t act when he should doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t, and 3) that this reason still does not in any way disprove or invalidate the point that this is something to be EARNED, not given, and that he has not shown himself ready.

And for those crying it’s “unfair”, what is REALLY unfair is this expectation that he somehow “deserves” to be granted something he hasn’t earned based on an issue he hasn’t tried to work past or overcome.

What it comes down to here is making excuses for someone who COULD act and better himself but chooses not to. That doesn’t make him a bad person or character, but it does make him a bad friend, a poor chooser of the chosen, and it only further proves he is not ready for the responsibility that people seem to insist he “deserves“ like it’s a prize to enjoy rather than a potential mistake to avoid that could cause serious harm in the hands of someone with this sort of attitude and passivity.

If he hands them put without growing as a character, I want it to blow up in his face that he didnt think things through and gave one out to a person who shouldn't have one. Force him to face consequences for his choices.

You know, people are saying he should have been the one handing out Miraculous all along and I’m just envisioning all the ways it could have gone wrong.

“Oh hey! Sapotis are an akuma that multiplies! We need a Miraculous that can multiply, too! I’ll give the Mouse Miraculous to someone!” Cue Sapotis playing with the Mouse Hero’s various mini selves as toys and traumatizing them.

“Uh oh! It’s Stormy Weather! I’ve got it! Let’s use the Dragon Miraculous to fight weather with weather!” Cue the clashing weather phenomenon creating an even BIGGER and more out of control storm.

“Okay, so the last two incidents went wrong, but surely using the Bee Miraculous against Anansi is the right move!” Anansi uses wrestling move with the Bee Hero that causes the Venom power to hit the hero instead.

And that’s not even getting into him potentially picking the wrong people for each Miraculous in the first place. 

“Kim’s strong! Let’s give him the Dragon!”

“Alix is all about speed so I’ll give her the Horse!”

“Let’s give Mylene the Bee and force her into a close range fight against the akuma she’s terrified of! That can’t possibly go wrong!”

Honestly, there’s greater likelihood of him losing any potential temporary heroes due to his poor choices.

Go off comrade.

Adrien: Mopes like a sad boy all the time, got what he wanted when the miraculous were stolen, harasses his partner, acts possessive of said partner, caused multiple deaths, caused Bunnix to be lost in time, threw a tantrum while the city is drowning beneath his feet, actively participated in trying to get people akumatized just to see his partner, is useless everywhere you turn, is a bully apologist, never gives anything to anyone even after the’ve sacrificed a lot for him, was only worried about Rena Rouge and Carapace knowing eachother’s identities and not the fact that Nino found his behavior as Cat Noir disturbing, etc (more transgressions that can’t be named on this post)

Adrien stans: Omg! He’s my king! He’s so sad and Ladybug is a terrible partner for not returning his feelings. His dad neglects him so that automatically makes everything he does ok!

Me:

[ID: A person staring at the camera with a shocked and confused expression. End ID.]

To the people saying that Marinette was also problematic with her obsessing and stalking, you're right. But that doesn't negate Adrien's actions and how the story favors him while it humiliate and blame Marinette in every turn.

The problem is NOT that Adrien does bad things, the problem is that Adrien does bad things that the writers portray as good things. No one expects Adrien or any other character to never do anything wrong.

The problem is that Adrien is a misogynist who harasses women the moment he can get away with it, and rather than portraying this as a bad thing, we're supposed to cheer him on. That's the problem.

Marinette does tons of bad things. But unlike Adrien, she faces consequences, she is punished, we aren't supposed to agree with her. We're supposed to be mad at her.

That's the difference.

Also Adrien: Oop I almost forgot that he tried to annihilate a black girl on screen, left his ring irresponsibly on a roof top, found a book that belonged to his father about the miraculous and didn’t warn ladybug (The collecter), destroyed a chimney because his partner wasn’t relying on only him, didn’t warn his partner that Lila attempted to leave her with the akuma to get stabbed by a sword (Oni chan), tried to guilt his partner into dating him then got passive aggresive when she didn’t show up, his constant flirting with ladybug and his inability to take anything seriously led to Marinette’s bedroom being demolished while chat noir looked like he couldn’t care less (gigantitan), has shown himself to be an unreliable friend spent the entire season (4) being useless then getting angry that his partner used the temporary heroes to combat said uselessness, made fun of his cousin for not having any friends when Felix’s dad just died a year ago (like what the hell adrien?!), argued about revealing their identities while fighting the most dangerous opponent yet (risk), didn’t think to warn ladybug that the dog hero (Felix) was someone dangerous which would result in the loss of the miraculous while he pretends to have her back even though he’s a traitor etc (probably even more transgressions that outnumber Marinette’s by a land slide)

Also Adrien Stans: Ahhh he’s like the best character ever! He is such boyfriend material that Marinette will be lucky that she breathes the same air him. How dare Ladybug not cater to everyone of his whims!? That’s why he does bad things! His mental health should be her top priority every moment of the day. It’s not like she has to carter universal objects, keep bullies at bay, work on her career, deal with her own trauma, and try to keep everything from falling apart. Angstdrien Depreste obviously has it much worse!

Me:

They really had the gall to have “Kuro Neko” be, what, two episodes away from the finale? And did it all with a straight face.

And if you insert “Miraculous New York” into the canon (where Ladybug rightfully said that she couldn’t trust Chat Noir anymore), then he was the one who’d already proved that he couldn’t be trusted, yet two episodes into Season 4 they’re pretending it didn’t happen.

“I didn’t trust you!” wow I can’t imagine what perfectly valid reason you had for doing that, Ladybug, but I guess there’s no time to talk about that (nor the trauma they gave her explicitly so she’d be afraid to get close to him)

I genuinely feel like people forget that this is supposed to be a girl power show and not “The Adrien Agreste Show.”

God, season five is going to be so bad. I bet the narritive will force Maribug to fall in-love with Adrichat. That’s not even mentioning the smug gloating of the toxic adristans and love square stans. I’m crying just thinking about how much the stupid is going ti be kicked into overdrive.

Is it just me or does Marinette have it worse compared to Adrien narratively and in the fandom?

Let’s go over the facts:

These are just the few I can think of off the time up my head but it’s pretty clear whose side the show is on. This is clearly a show that young girls should look up to.😘

Feel free to reblog and add more if I’m missing anything.

Do people realise that...Marinette doesn't need to have constant flashbacks to Chat Blanc for her to have trauma over it???? That just because she can focus on other stuff doesn't mean that she isn't traumatised by that event??

The sheer hypocrisy of Marinette salters who are Feligami shippers is absolutely baffling to me.

Every false thing they say about Marinette being a stalker and a bully and all that crap, is literally what is happening with Felix and how he treats Kagami.

Ima need y’all to keep that same energy because at this point the hate for Marinette is childish and is smelling a bit racist to me.

By the way, @staff is changing the video player and photo viewer on the mobile app to the one from Tumblr TV. As a result, they have made the abhorrent decision to remove an important accessibility feature in order to TikTok-ifying Tumblr. You can no longer zoom in on photos. Or so I thought. Because the visually impaired are now second-class users to the Tumblr Staff, they just decided to make it harder to zoom in on photos.

So, for all of you who, like me, find the pinch-to-zoom feature on Tumblr invaluable to read and view photos, you now have to:

Tap the Photo > Tap the “more” button in the description > tap the photo again

This will open the old photo viewer (for now, anyway) which was formerly one tap away. It will grant you all the former features of the old photo viewer, including the ability to zoom in.

EDIT: if you’re seeing this on your For You Dash or some other non-reblogged method you will see this edit. Before reblogging and commenting on this, there is addition information in the replies. I have replies disabled, so I am the only person who can add them. I’ve added addition info, as well as an update. Please read them. TLDR: many others, and myself, are now seeing it’s fixed. Many others are not. It may be a roll-out fix from the back-end. Be patient and wait to see if it’ll make its way to you.

I know its been a long time, but fat photo ref just updated! Check it out or request access to the site at fatphotoref.com 

I’ll be approving folks later today! There’s also a substack now if you want a newsletter when I update the site. 

I just wanna point out

This

Vs this

Just sayin

And y’all still think Adrien and Alya are “good characters”

If you took that scenario and swapped Adrien and Marinette’s positions, people would be pissed at her and Alya for being creepy and trying to force him to accept a kiss he didn’t want. What makes Adrien above criticism?

He white

The selfishness and destructive jealousy of Cat Noir never stops surprising me. He literally spent the second half of the season four finale being passive aggressive and jealous that Ladybug brought in a new hero (Flairmidable).

The reason this is all so bad is because when Ladybug comes back to collect the miraculous from Adrien, when in reality she handed it the Felix, he immediately responds with, ”You gave it to Felix,” without missing a single beat.

I don’t believe that Ladybug is to blame for losing all the miraculous and I never will. Because the blame falls on Adrien’s shoulders. His spontaneous response to Ladybug’s inquiry proves that he knew Felix was the new dog hero the entire time and didn’t warn Ladybug that he may be dangerous. He instead spent the entire time being a dumbass and bitter that he wasn’t Ladybug’s sole support system.