People who don’t understand the difference between punishment and discipline should, like, never have kids
hey op i dont understand the difference could you please explain?
Yeah ofc!! Sorry for being vague I was just venting and didnt expect reblogs haha
I’m gonna try to explain my point through examples.
Ex 1: toddler screaming and crying in the walmart
- Punishment: I’m going to spank you or embarrass you or yell at you! Shut up! I’ll give you something to cry about!
- Discipline: stop doing what you’re doing because it isn’t productive and it disturbs others as well as increasing your own upsetnes. I’m going to take you out of the environment that’s upsetting you until you’re calm and we can identify what upset you together so I can explain to you why it’s like that/help you find ways to productively express upsetness as you grow.
Ex 2: your teen is failing, like, all their classes
- Punishment: you’re grounded! You’re not allowed to go out with your friends or play games or do anything fun or enjoyable until your work is satisfactory!
- Discipline: it’s important to do well in school. You need to communicate with me when you are struggling so I can help you. You also need to learn to manage fun stuff and work as that’s an important life skill in adulthood. I’m going to monitor your work more closely so I can help you find that balance. And if this is a deeper mental or emotional issue, we can seek help for you together.
So basically, discipline is something you teach that requires time, communication, and sternness. Punishment is a single action meant to deliberately cause discomfort in an attempt to implement negative reinforcement. Not good.
Also:
Consequences can be part of discipline, as a form of teaching cause/effect, but should not be used as punishment, to coerce, or as an excuse to get rid of a child’s rights/autonomy.
Example: Toddler has been told repeatedly (and is old enough to understand the rules) not to color on the walls. Colors on walls again. No more crayons for a certain amount of time. That teaches respect for property that isn’t your own (the wall) and shows that you aren’t allowed to disregard the rules without consequences. It does not take away a child’s rights, just a privilege, and only temporarily. Another example for this age group: My daughter can’t yet turn paper pages without succumbing to the temptation to rip and eat them. So we only do board books and if she has paper page book time, we have to sit right there with her to monitor her (which she doesn’t appreciate). It’s a form of teaching and practice, not punishment.
Example: Teenager knows curfew is 11pm. Deliberately stays out til midnight and doesn’t call to explain why. Teen’s curfew either gets moved earlier, or (depending on how many times this has happened) doesn’t get to go out unsupervised for a certain length of time. This is a matter of the parent needing to see improved behavior in order to know the teen can be trusted with very important time and behavior management skills that are designed to keep the child safe.
Important aspects of consequences as part of discipline that make the difference between discipline and punishment:
- Consequences must be a derivative of the broken rule. No taking away a favorite toy because the kid yelled at you. It has to connect to the rule and preferably be a natural consequence. For younger kids you may have to introduce some artificial ones, like the crayon example above, but it should connect directly to the action and lesson you’re trying to teach. Kid breaks rule about electronics in the bath and breaks phone or tablet? No immediate replacement/repair. Natural consequence.
- Must NEVER violate the child’s needs or rights. Socially isolating your teenager is violating a need. Refusing to give them or allow them food is violating a need and a right. Never withhold rights or needs as a “consequence,” that’s just a punishment.
- Consequences should be the result of an established rule. No making things up on the fly and then introducing a consequence right then. You didn’t give the child a chance to learn it or practice!
- Consequences should be agreed upon (older kids) and warned about (all ages) beforehand. This ties in with the last one. Warn your child what the consequences will be before they break the rule. For the crayon example, the child should have been told many times that if they keep coloring on the walls, they don’t get to play with their crayons anymore for ‘x amount of time’. Expectations should be specific. For older kids, let them help decide appropriate consequences. This gives them a sense of autonomy and helps them make connections between their behavior and the results. For teens, they help decide curfew, and what privileges they lose if they break curfew, how they should go about earning them back, etc. All this should happen WAY before the consequences ever have to be implemented, so they know beforehand what’s at stake and have a tangible reason to abide by the rules instead of the more nebulous ones (to keep you safe, because you need sleep, because night is dangerous, etc).
- Consequences should be specific, and should be stated explicitly. For the crayons example, you would tell the child “We have a rule not to color on the walls. I reminded you several times not to color on the walls, and I see you colored on them anyway. So now you don’t get to play with your crayons for two days. We have to be nice to the walls and not color on them, so we will play with the crayons another time.” When the child inevitably asks for the crayons back before the time limit is up, you remind them why they can’t have the crayons- “you colored on the walls after we asked you nicely not to do it, so you have to wait until tomorrow to have them back.” For the teen, it will be easier because they have a longer memory and were (hopefully) involved in deciding the consequences to begin with.
- Consequences must be consistent. If the rule/consequence pair is “no TV before homework is done or else you don’t get your screen time after dinner,” you have to stick with it each time. Otherwise, it doesn’t teach anything except that you are inconsistent and they never know what they can expect from you.
Basically, anything designed to force the child into submission or compliance or make them afraid of you is punishment and is not going to teach them anything. Consequences have their place but only as teaching tools to help shape responsible behavior, not as a way to make your child obey you.
Oh! And grades, emotions, physical abilities, and anything else that isn’t a behavioral choice should NEVER be “rules.” Eg., no “all a’s” rules or “no crying about such-and-such.” Rules should be about choices, and so should consequences. Discipline applies to every situation, but consequences don’t.
Here is the UN convention on the rights of the child - some of these may seem may seem basic when you’re already onto the higher levels of considering discipline: children have the right to be alive, children have the right to protection from abuse and neglect. However, though rights 2 and 4 state that all children have these rights and all governments should work as hard as possible to uphold them and right 42 says that governments have a responsibility to ensure children and adults are educated about the rights of children, these rights are violated all the time in both dire situations and in the course of ordinary life in ways that probably no one who is involved even realises.
Are all schools, parents and carers upholding right 15 (Children can join or set up groups or organisations, and they can meet with others, as long as this does not harm other people), right 16 (Every child has the right to privacy. The law must protect children’s privacy, family, home, communications and reputation (or good name) from any attack), right 31 (Every child has the right to rest, relax, play and to take part in cultural and creative activities) and right 17 (Children have the right to get information from the Internet, radio, television, newspapers, books and other sources. Adults should make sure the information they are getting is not harmful. Governments should encourage the media to share information from lots of different sources, in languages that all children can understand)? I KNOW that right 23 (Every child with a disability should enjoy the best possible life in society. Governments should remove all obstacles for children with disabilities to become independent and to participate actively in the community) and right 22 (Children who move from their home country to another country as refugees (because it was not safe for them to stay there) should get help and protection and have the same rights as children born in that country) are not being upheld consistently.
I work in a Rights Respecting school - as part of normal daily practice, we talk to children about their rights and teach them to use them in conversation with adults, especially if they need to stand up for themselves. You might ask, isn’t it annoying when you tell little Sally that they are going to stay in at playtime if they throw another pencil across the room at defenceless little Susie’s head and they say back to you in a snide little voice, “ha ha, you can’t stop me from having playtime because it says so in Right 31″ Well yes, it is annoying, but nevertheless, I am intellectually if not practically grateful for every one of the many times that has happened, because it reminds me that besides morality and ethics, there are plenty of other reasons children have the right rest, relax and play and one of them is that the quickest way for this behaviour to escalate from some light pencil throwing to some chair throwing and full-on, unwinnable defiance is if I prevent little Sally from having a goddamn minute to herself to run in a circle outside and scream her rage at the uncaring clouds above her. So instead, we let her have ten minutes to calm down and then we have a conversation about how I’m a duty bearer and I must uphold all the children’s rights equally and that in fact Sally does have a right to play, but she is also infringing on Susie’s right to an education (hard to concentrate when dodging pencils), an adequate standard of living and health. I have a responsibility to put a stop to Sally’s behaviour because I am a duty-bearer (as all adults who are around children are). And then we probably have a little restorative convo with Sally and Susie both present and then Sally probably is not allowed to have her pencil case on the desk for the rest of the day. Maybe she has to come up to my desk to get each item when she needs it and that’s pretty annoying, so that might be the end of that. Yes, I really have that whole conversation out with kids, even little ones, and yes, they understand it perfectly well (I don’t always use the word ‘infringing’ but sometimes I do). Maybe with some kids I have to have it a hundred times, because in the heat of the moment, it’s hard to remember that all children and in this school we uphold them, but it sinks in over time.
More info with places where all the rights are written out for anyone who needs them not in a photo: https://www.unicef.org.uk/what-we-do/un-convention-child-rights/
