While I love that warner bros is finally getting their shit together and is starting to respect their directors, it makes me sad that this happened at the expanse of Zack.
It’s obvious Zack Snyder was toxic and holding the DCU backwards. Post-Snyder is the best thing to happen. Snyder was a huge mistake.
“Everyone says that about ” Batman Begins.“ "Batman’s dark.” I’m like, “Okay, no, Batman’s cool.” He gets to go to a Tibetan monastery and be trained by ninjas. Okay? I want to do that. But he doesn’t, like, get raped in prison. That could happen in my movie. If you want to talk about dark, that’s how that would go.“
- Zack Snyder
This is the "visionary genius” DCEU stans are so desparate to defend and glorify.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. He is not a fan of these characters. He doesn’t understand these characters. He only likes HIS interpretation of the characters or the versions of them at their most extreme (TDKR, Injustice, etc) which in a way is fine because every comic book character has had numerous iterations so a lot are open to interpretation. We debate all day long about which versions of characters are “better” or more “true”, whatever. But you can’t debate facts and figured and clearly the DCEU is not successful, at least not the way it should be. Ideally it should be doing as well maybe even better than the MCU both critically and commercially, but they’re not even competition at this point.
If it were up to him he would do even more movies in which Superman, Batman, and the rest of the league would be even more broody, murderous, dark, and violent. Maybe that’s why Watchmen was so good IMO. I know that movie is just as dividing amongst fans and critics as Snyder’s DC work but to me, I think the movie is excellent, it plays to all his strengths. All characters are kind of horrible. The world they live in is horrible.
Executives at DC/WB also share a big portion of the blame for the DCEU’s shortcomings but please let’s stop acting like Snyder is this infallible movie maker who is just too good for this world. He’s obviously talented but like with any and all other filmmakers, he got some weaknesses. In this case, I think his biggest weakness is how he feels about/views these characters.
Snyder fans, especially Snyder Superman fans need to be blocked. They make all DC fans look bad, and they’re everything wrong with DC fandom. Other DC fans need to rise up against their insanity.
*cough*
Okay, I do understand some of the cringe-worthy material of Justice League can be attributed to Joss Whedon.
But if you think Zack Snyder is incapable of doing films that objectify women or give female characters problematic plots, I think you might be a little biased.
If I can list a few non-Sucker Punch examples: Queen Gorgo’s subplot in 300 that doesn’t contribute a whole lot to the overall story and at one point involves rape for instance, one that wasn’t even in the comic. Oh and the one shot in Batman v Superman where Wonder Woman splayed out and shot at an angle where people could see up her skirt? Whedon sure as hell didn’t touch that one.
And I know I’m going to get a lot of hate for this, but I’m just awfully sick of the narrative pushed that everything wrong with Justice League can just be solely put on Whedon. I’ve seen Zack Snyder’s films enough to know he has his own problems as a filmmaker in depicting women.
Poster Created by: Warner Bros
Courtesy of: Wikipedia
Exactly. Zack Snyder is no Patty Jenkins when it comes to the depiction of women.
Patty Jenkins and Wonder Woman are the only good things about DC.
Can someone please fire Joss Wheadon from ever being involved in filmmaking again? I mean all those shots of Diana’s ass/boobs weren’t necessary at all, and did Barry really have to land on her boobs? I can excuse Barry being a little tongue-tied around the ‘beautiful warrior woman’ because that’s his character but the rest of that shit was fucking stupid. Fire him.
The problem is it could have been Zack Snyder too. Watchmen and Sucker Punch had the same problems.
Patty Jenkins should have full control over Wonder Woman across all films. Everyone should need her approval for everything related to Wonder Woman.
I suspected “Justice League” would get bashed no matter how good it was. People, critics, and fan boys just got into the habit of praising Marvel and bashing DC. It’s easy to bitch about Zack Snyder because of his specific style of film making. But he did a great job on “300” and was able to produce a film of “Watchmen” when no one else could.
What did surprise me was reading a post by a fan of Snyder complaining they “despised” what Joss Whedon did to “Justice League”. WTF?!?
Whedon stepped in when Snyder need to take a break. He helped finish what I think is a great film. To claim to be a DC fan yet “despise” Whedon’ contribution is to reveal your true intentions - not to praise Snyder’s film that Whedon helped complete - but to be just another “bashers” heaping negativity on the web. Ugh! I don’t need to follow people like that.
Zack Snyder fans are not true DC fans. They don’t care about DC. It makes no sense because Zack Snyder picked Joss Whedon in the first place.
Okay, I am now officially peeved.
I hate this.
I hate this so much.
That’s because Zack Snyder’s Superman is awful. Everyone is saying Joss Whedon’s Superman is true to character.
I’m gonna go to WB and SCREAM until they give me Zack’s cut of Justice League. If you wanna join hmu.
Why? Zack’s cut would be way worse.
So when Wonder Woman came out, everyone hated Zack Snyder, but now that Whedon got involved in Justice League, Snyder has suddenly become this perfect champion to stand behind. Why do y’all have to 0-100 so extremely??
Zack Snyder is awful. The only person who has done any good for DC is Patty Jenkins.
Yes!! My boi giving me good news!
Great characters and great chemistry is what Joss Whedon brought to Justice League
hm. getting mixed messages here
You’re focusing on the wrong part. Both say it’s a mess.
Just watched Justice League. I thought there will be less Wonder Woman… BUUTTT DAMNNNN!!!!! and I googled Zack Snyder, I found out we have the same birthday!! Lmao thats not even important but im just like… cool man 😎😎😎
Joss Whedon has the writing credit. He made the characters likable and fun.
At around 00:02:30 from Batman’s own mouth, “Joss Whedon made the movie better.”
Snyder fans can’t claim the movie is all Zack Snyder without lying!
Henry Cavill calls Batman v Superman a niche movie.
Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill, and Gal Gadot are Team Whedon.
It hurts my heart to hear Henry Cavill talk about how previous DCEU/DCU movies were done wrong and that now they can do things right because it’s like he’s trying to apologize for Zack Snyder and his vision when there’s nothing to apologize for.
There’s a lot to apologize for. Henry Cavill, Ben Affleck, Gal Gadot, Geoff Johns. These guys have been saying the same thing. Zack Snyder’s vision is wrong for DC. He has always been the wrong guy and most people have agreed with this. Zack Snyder is not a good storyteller. He has the wrong values. Snyder is interested in deconstructing characters not portraying their heroic greatness. But the worst part is that he’s awful at getting his ideas across which is why people think his movies are bad. It’s not about how dark and depressing they are. He doesn’t do a good job exploring his ideas as a movie. Zack Snyder is in over his head and it makes him a bad director.
Snyder fans have no issues giving Snyder credit for Wonder Woman when he had little to do with Wonder Woman’s success. They make a big deal about his story credit when he didn’t contribute the most to the story, and his ideas are being retconned.
Funny how Snyder fans never mention that Zack Snyder was the Executive producer of Suicide Squad. He had more influence over Suicide Squad than Wonder Woman.
Then, Snyder fans refuse to give Joss Whedon any credit who’s really the unsung hero of Justice League. What does Joss Whedon, a more talented director, have to gain from finishing Justice League? It’s like Michael Bay asking Steven Spielberg to finish his movie and then taking all the credit. Joss Whedon gave Justice League a whole new music score, he’s editing and cutting the movie together, and he’s doing all the color processing and post production work to make the footage look good.
Snyder fans are hypocrites and liars just to push their agenda. They steal credit to make Snyder look better and they downplay anything negative. They tell themselves that Snyder is a god and a genius director who makes masterpieces. Those are completely irrational opinions that isn’t worth an ounce of respect.
Self-care means not spinning information to fit what you want to believe.
