PSA that Jon would physically man-handle a White Walker with his bare hands if it meant protecting Sansa from harm. 

SPOILERS - Sansa and Jon connections.

Some thoughts on Sansa and Jon from a lovely westeros.org board contributor, A Thousand Eyes and Two. The original post is here.

Sansa and Jon are, as far as I can tell, the only two Starks we never actually see interact in “present” time, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence from a literary standpoint. Everything we know of their past interactions comes via someone’s reminiscences, so each is present in the other’s life, but only in the past, never in the present. If Jon and Sansa meet in the future, it will doubtless come across to readers, in a very real way, as their very first meeting. Given the changes they’ve both undergone since their last meeting, that type of dynamic makes a certain amount of literary sense.

At the beginning of the series, Jon and Sansa seemed to sit at two opposite ends of the “Stark” children’s cultural spectrum: Sansa is viewed by other characters as the most culturally “southern” of the children, (and she did initially seem to value “southern” courtly culture more than Northern culture), while Jon is viewed as the most culturally “Northern” of the Starks because he does not associate with southern-based institutions. Sansa was the Stark child most heavily and explicitly associated with the Faith of the Seven (she was always with her septa and she’s the Stark child we see actually worshiping in the sept the most), while Jon was, at the beginning of the series, the most heavily associated with the Old Gods (given that he’s the only one of the children who does not keep the Faith at all, not to mention Ghost’s physical resemblance to a weirwood tree). Of the boys, Jon looks the most like Ned, while Sansa looks the most (out of the girls) like Catelyn—-superficially, readers were encouraged, in the beginning, to associate Sansa and Jon with two different “regions”, one with the South and one with the North.

In AGOT, Sansa and Jon occupied two very different, inherently non-overlapping worlds, and each person’s understanding of how “the world” worked implicitly contained no real “place” for the other. By that I mean: Jon loved to fight, occupied a world in which fighting was the primary activity, and at the beginning had a great deal of difficulty interacting with people incapable of fighting. Look at his initial attitude toward Tyrion as well as the other Watch recruits, for example. Sansa is the one Stark child inherently incapable of fighting. She loved knitting, dancing, listening to singers, things that Jon had no use for—-there was no room for Sansa in Jon’s “world”.

And Sansa’s “world” contained no real “place” for Jon. She believed that knighthood and its accompanying (southern) chivalric code were the celebrated foundations of the world, and interpreted everything she saw through that cultural lens. Sansa knew her “world of chivalry” clearly viewed a bastard like Jon with suspicion, and because of that, I think Sansa probably had difficulty holding what seemed like two contradictory notions in her head: on the one hand, Jon was her brother, raised along with her and someone she never seemed to have any open conflicts with (unlike Arya, for example), and on the other hand, as the occupier of a “place” (bastard) that her social code condemned.

Now, I think it’s worth noting that, although bastards have far lesser status in Westerosi society, there are “places” that can be carved out for them nonetheless, especially for paternally-acknowledged highborn bastards like Jon: we’re told that bastards have served in the Kingsguard, a bastard (Sam Stone) serves as Master-At-Arms for House Royce of Runestone, a bastard ends up on Cersei’s Small Council, at least one bastard served as Hand of the King, bastards freely join the Citadel and the Faith, etc., etc. But the issue with Jon is that Sansa, during AGOT, pretty clearly viewed knighthood as the central aspect of a man’s worth. To “properly” occupy an honored place in “Sansa’s world”, Jon would have to first be a knight—-not just a fighter, but an actual anointed knight, with all of the accompanying chivalric duties and responsibilities. (Look at how she thinks about Jory vs. how she thinks of Alyn in AGOT for an illustration of this.) Jon clearly had the fighting ability to attain knighthood, but unlike the other Starks, he has never kept the Seven at all. Knighthood was never a real possibility for him, as it was for Robb/Bran/Rickon, and presumably Sansa recognized that. I think it was difficult for her, especially early on, to really find a positive place for Jon in her understanding of the world, because he obviously couldn’t be a septon, he couldn’t join the Citadel (she would have recognized Jon wasn’t exactly a bookworm), he was not in line for lordship, and he wasn’t going to be a knight … but deep down she loved him nonetheless. So what was he? Where did he fit? How could she believe that knighthood and chivalry were the cornerstones of her society while simultaneously having a relationship with her non-knight bastard brother? I think this is why Sansa was, in the beginning, so very, very keen on pointing out Jon’s exact relationship to her: her half-brother, a bastard. I think deep down Jon really confused her, and this was her way of repeatedly clarifying to herself exactly who Jon was, of seeking a measure of control over a relationship that must have confuzzled her greatly, because its very existence contradicted her understanding of how the world was supposed to work.

Because while Jon and Sansa seemed to have the most “distant” relationship of the Stark children, it’s pretty clear that Jon and Sansa did always love each other deep down. At the Wall, Jon mentioned that he missed Sansa. In ADWD, when he thinks of his lost siblings, right before he starts making plans to head to Winterfell, an image of Sansa brushing Lady’s coat and singing is included. And even in AGOT, though Sansa rarely thought about Jon, when he did enter her thoughts we saw her seem to subconsciously want Jon to occupy a “positive” position in her understanding of the world order. We know from Jon that Sansa tried to teach him how to talk to girls, and though he mentions that she always called him her “half”-brother, there’s no indication she tried to ignore or insult him, as other trueborn children might have done to a bastard. Her love for him was clearly not as “free” as Arya’s love for him was—-Sansa’s world of chivalry and knighthood was a stumbling block to such a relationship, so it’s easy for readers to overlook that she did love him. But even in AGOT, look at her reaction to Yoren:

It’s easy for readers to focus on her calling Jon her “bastard half brother” here, but if we look a little deeper, we notice how she also thinks to herself that the singers called the Watch “the black knights of the Wall”. This is important because we know what a huge premium Sansa was putting on the idea of knighthood. Though religion seemingly prevents Jon from attaining knighthood, Sansa seemed to subconsciously look for a loophole there, and found one in the songs: her beloved singers could “grant” Jon a sort of honorary knighthood as a member of the Watch, so that is the route her thoughts took.

(And here we also see that Jon and Sansa, though superficially incredibly divergent, actually did look at the world in somewhat similar ways: each believed in the stories and songs, in honor—-just different stories and different methods of honor. Each believed Benjen Stark was the prototypical Watchman. Jon believed all Watchmen were true and honorable, Sansa believed all knights were true and honorable. They each had specific ideas about how a specific place was supposed to be (the Wall and the South), and each of them had those ideas dashed by reality.)

As ASOIAF has progressed, we’ve seen Jon and Sansa slip into each other’s roles, into each other’s shoes. Jon becomes a Lord in ASOS, the same book in which Sansa ceases “being” a Lady. Robb disinherited Sansa at the same time (if the will says what many suspect it does) that he declared he wanted Jon to inherit. Becoming Alayne meant Sansa became a bastard, just like Jon, (and Jon could very well have been declared trueborn by Robb’s will, which would mean that Sansa “became” a bastard and Jon “became” a trueborn Stark). Sansa began her story by loving singers, and has progressed toward disliking them (Marillion), while Jon initially seemed to have no use for singers … until he met the singer Mance Rayder. The Littlefinger/Lysa/Sansa dynamic played out almost as a vicious, over-the-top caricature of the Ned/Catelyn/Jon dynamic, with Sansa forced to literally stand in a (heavily skewed and sensationalized) version of Jon’s shoes: Catelyn saw Jon as a living representation of another woman that she feared Ned loved more than her, and Lysa saw Sansa as a living representation of Catelyn, the woman that Lysa (rightly) feared Littlefinger loved more than her. Sansa seemed to have a much closer relationship with her mother than with her father (the exact opposite of Jon), but “Alayne” had a much “closer” relationship with Littlefinger than with Lysa—-Sansa takes on with Littlefinger (a much skeevier version of) the relatively close father/child relationship that Jon had with Ned.

In her final chapter of AFFC, Sansa thinks to herself:

Or so Sansa tells herself. But I think there’s a pretty good chance Sansa had actually been subconsciously thinking about Jon ever since she took on the Alayne Stone identity, because Sansa seems to be subconsciously patterning her “Alayne Stone” persona around Jon Snow. Sansa wants “Alayne” to be 14 years old, because “She had decided that Alayne Stone should be older than Sansa Stark”. How old was Jon the last time Sansa saw him? 14 years old. She becomes worried at the prospect of dancing, because she seems to think that, for some unexplained reason, Alayne Stone might not enjoy dancing:

Dancing is a pretty popular activity among women of all social classes and we know it’s an activity very close to Sansa’s heart, given that she was able to dance even at her own terrible wedding. But then in ADWD we discover that Jon does not appear to enjoy dancing—-he refuses to dance with Alys, and Alys teases him about it when she brings up previous dances they were forced to dance together at Winterfell. If Sansa is subconsciously patterning “Alayne” on Jon Snow, then the fact that she’s concerned that Alayne might not enjoy dancing makes quite a bit of sense, given that Jon’s apparent dislike of dancing seems like the sort of thing Sansa would have picked up on. (In other words, if “Alayne” is patterned after Jon Snow, then the “real” reason Sansa fears Alayne won’t like dancing is because Sansa knows Jon, on whom Alayne is molded, dislikes dancing.) Sansa thinks of Alayne as “bastard-brave”, and since she barely knows Mya, what bastard does Sansa want Alayne to be as brave as? The obvious answer is Jon. And we see “Alayne” take on the type of caregiver role with Sweetrobin that the other Stark children (Bran and Arya, especially) seem to have associated with Jon, a role that Sansa herself seemed to take on with people like Beth Cassel and Jeyne Poole in Winterfell, but not with her own younger siblings.

This is Sansa’s thought process once Myranda Royce tells her about Jon’s new position as Lord Commander of the Watch. If I’m correct and she’s had Jon on the brain throughout AFFC, then this right here actually serves as a breakthrough for her, because Sansa goes from subconsciously longing for Jon to explicitly longing for Jon. And her thought process here is a pretty useful distillation of how far Sansa’s come from AGOT, a semi-culmination of her ideological journey thus far: the main issues she once had with Jon—-that he was a bastard, that he didn’t “fit” the world of knights and chivalry that Sansa loved—-have been essentially nullified. She starts out with the “old” Sansa’s thought patterns (“He was only her half-brother”), but then she immediately (and pretty substantially) switches gears and starts openly longing to see Jon again, expressly thinking about how she’s now a bastard too. The ideological barriers between them are basically gone.

Indeed, Sansa’s entire arc had been bringing her closer and closer, ideologically, to the forces (winter, the North, and the Old Gods) represented by Jon. Sansa started out in AGOT preferring the Faith of the Seven, loving knighthood, loving the south, and losing her direwolf. By AFFC, we see her (far) more heavily associated with the Old Gods, favoring a non-knight (the Hound), and in an overall sense, switching gears from the epitomization of a “summer’s child” to (IMO) someone on the path to becoming a “winter’s child”. Jon and Sansa become the Starks who we see most heavily drawing their inner strength from the cold and the snow: Jon mentions on more than one occasion that Ghost loves the snow, we see Jon frequently seeking out the cold (not the heat) at the Wall. We see Sansa literally drawing strength from the snow and the cold at the Eyrie. In the beginning of AGOT, Sansa wanted only to be a queen in the hot south. By AFFC, we see her building a scale model of Winterfell and drawing spiritual strength from the forces of winter.

Given the way Sansa seems to have been sliding more and more “toward” Jon as her arc has progressed—-given the way her arc has been bringing her closer to him both ideologically and thematically—-I wonder what implications Jon’s stabbing (and the potential future that stabbing could bring for him) have for Sansa’s future. Because the myth of Persephone looms large over both Jon and Sansa, and given what happened to Jon at the end of ADWD, I’m very, very curious what GRRM has in store for Sansa’s arc, especially now that winter has come.

Both Jon and Sansa encounter “the pomegranate”: Sansa is offered a literal pomegranate by Littlefinger, while Jon’s rulership arc in ADWD was confronted at every turn by the Old Pomegranate, Bowen Marsh. The pomegranate, in Greek mythology, is what causes Persephone to become Queen of the Dead in perpetuity, and it’s the reason winter comes in the first place—-winter, in Greek mythology, being viewed as Demeter’s grief at her separation from her daughter when Persephone descends every year to rule in the Underworld. The pomegrante causes Persephone to undertake two disparate roles, to become a creature of two separate worlds: she is both the Goddess of Spring and the Queen of the Underworld simultaneously (and concurrently), she rules in both the sunlight and the darkness. That idea—-of a person moving between two contradictory spheres of existence, of a person gaining strength by a capacity to move between the darkness and the light—-is a theme GRRM has played around with in other works, so there’s an excellent chance he’s exploring it in ASOIAF as well.

Both Jon and Sansa choose to reject “the pomegranate”: Jon rejects the Old Pomegranate’s demands for the future of the Watch, Sansa rejects Littlefinger’s attempt to have her eat an actual pomegranate. But look at what happened to Jon in ADWD: he refused to acquiese to the Old Pomegranate’s wishes, but the Old Pomegranate would not quietly accept rejection, choosing to physically attack him: there’s been a lot of speculation on these boards that the attack on Jon will lead to some death-based transformation, that he (like Persephone) might find himself transformed (and possibly occupying a new leadership role) because of the Old Pomegranate. GRRM apparently had some Sansa chapters prepared for ADWD, but he pushed them back to TWOW. I’m very curious about what those chapters contained.

Because winter has now come, and in winter, Persephone rules over the dead. Sansa’s arc has tracked Persephone in some pretty substantial ways: at the beginning of AGOT, when summer was in swing, she was the Stark most heavily associated with the warmth and frivolity of the South, just as Persephone was the flower-loving Goddess of Spring; Sansa was forced to marry, against her will, a man heavily associated with worldly wealth (in Greek mythology, Hades is associated with wealth because gold, silver, and jewels are drawn from beneath the ground, and Hades of course rules the Underworld). As winter approaches, Sansa loses her childlike innocence and naivete. And winter has now hit Westeros, and will presumably hit with a vengeance during TWOW—-so what will Sansa become in the winter? Where winter is a time of imprisonment for Persephone, with spring/summer freeing her to walk the warm world above, it seems that summer was a time of imprisonment for Sansa, and winter might end up freeing her. And the story of Persephone ends with Persephone holding dominion over the dead during the winter. This might be a hint toward our pomegranate-associated characters’ future, especially given the heavy associations both Jon and Sansa have with the living dead. (With Jon, those associations are obvious—-he’s a living man who wears black, his direwolf is named Ghost, he’s fighting wights. With Sansa, the associations are less obvious but no less profound: Sansa’s direwolf is dead (and since the Starks “are” their direwolves, Sansa is both alive and dead simultaneously because part of her is dead while part of her lives on), Littlefinger associates her with Catelyn reborn (and Catelyn has literally become the walking dead), not to mention the Hound: “The Hound is dead” we are told, and this “dead man” of course hated fire—-I doubt it’s a coincidence that this description of the Hound, as a walking dead man who hates fire, sounds quite a bit like a wight.)

And then there’s this bit from AFFC:

It’s easy to forget sometimes that AFFC and ADWD were originally meant to be one super-book. Could Sansa have been “sensing” Jon’s “death” here? Is the “ghost wolf” Ghost? Or is there a hint here for Sansa herself? She’s become a Stone, and she’s been told that a stone is a mountain’s daughter. The cold winds are howling, and she thinks the cold winds are becoming a ghost wolf—-is Sansa, she of the dead direwolf, en route to her own eventual death and resurrection? 

An awesome meta about what would happen in the novel. There are so many parallels to them I’m surprised that no one shipped them before the series.

It’s what’s so great about GRRM and his writing, you have to look a bit deeper into his writing and re-read what you’ve missed as you slowly connect the dots to the whole picture he’s been painting for years!

Why is Jon/Sansa endgame?

Hello to all, once again. Of course, I’ve decided to do another small, well, LARGE meta on why I personally think Jonsa is endgame. Now, these are my points, and my views, if you don’t agree, you’re free to do so. On we go now.

Now, since season 6, I’ve started shipping Jon and Sansa. Believe me, before season 6, I never thought they would even meet each other. But, I was surprised, and was also very surprised by the chemistry they had with each other. From the get go, from the scene where they discuss home and from there, I was very…suspicious of their interactions with each other. Now, personally, I have no brothers. I do have sisters though. I would never act with them the way Sansa and Jon act with each other. The stares, the heavy breathing after arguing, the protection speech. 

Moving on…

Point 1: They look like Ned and Cat reborn. Even book wise, Jon is said to look the MOST like Ned, even Cat says so. Sansa herself is compared to Catelyn numerous times. By Petyr, by Lysa, etc. Now even though Sansa is compared to Cat, she doesn’t treat Jon the same way Catelyn did. After meeting him again, she becomes very close with Jon. She learned from  her mistakes. Anyway…

At the wall, after his death, when Jon came back, he started to wear his hair in a man-bun, and it matched Ned’s perfectly, almost eerily. Sansa also started to wear her hair in ‘northern’ braids. Much like her mother did. Even in season 7 now, she wears her hair a lot like her mothers, with a touch of Cersei in it. 

Jon/Ned- Honorable, broody, tries to do the right thing all the time, protective, etc. 

Sansa/Cat: Red hair, has the ‘tully’ look about her. Sansa also has the gift of observation, a lot like Cat did. Etc.

Now, this relationship. Cat and Ned’s. They were not married for love, they were married because Catelyn was engaged to Ned’s brother, Brandon. He however, met his end in Kings Landing when the mad king Aerys invited him and his father, for a peace summoning. He was burned alive. To join the two houses, Catelyn and Ned then married. Over the years, Catelyn said their marriage was built up, ‘stone by stone.’ They also had the most loving, healthy relationships on the show. 

In Season 7 Jon and Sansa have had so many parallels to Ned and Cat. Their looks, and now their actions. 

Point 2: Their chemistry!!

Like I said in the introduction to this meta, their scenes in season 6 were so…tense. This scene specifically. They just ooze sexual tension. Like…their are so many unspoken words between them. So many things they want to unleash, all the anger they have pent up, not exactly at each other, but just in general. 

Hell, Kit said himself. “Sansa twists him in ways no one else can. She gets under his skin.” We’ve seen this before, with Ygritte. When they were together, Jon and Ygritte argued a lot. It came to a boiling point when they fucked in a cave. Jon and Sansa’s chemistry has yet to come to the ‘boiling’ point. In the tent though, with all the heavy breathing, the lighting, and the intense eye contact, I was halfway expecting Jon to throw Sansa on the table and fuck her senseless. 

If they weren’t ‘brother and sister’ no doubt that would have happened.

I’ve also said before that they have this unspoken thing to their relationship. They can communicate without words. Like when they were meeting with Lyanna Mormont, Jon knew when to jump in when Sansa needed him, and Sansa knew when to jump in when Jon needed her too. 

I love that.

Point 3: Their compatibility.

Now, at the moment they do consider themselves ‘brother and sister.’ Even though they don’t act like it.

Now, season 6 and 7 has shown us that Jon needs help when it comes to political aspects of ruling. And Sansa, well, she admits that he’s the ‘military man.’ Sansa knows the south, because she was experienced it, she’s tasted the betrayal, the death, the hypocrisy. She’s been flung into it, the only thing that protected her was her ladylike facade. 

Also, in the books, Jon and Sansa dream of having children that look like their deceased siblings. And have their names. They dream of returning to Winterfell, they think about it constantly. Also, the books show the parallel journey that they both take. It isn’t as noticeable in the show, but book-wise, it is very plainly seen. 

Also, my last meta was about redheads, and why Jon seems so drawn to them. He’s drawn to them because of two women he couldn’t get to notice him. Cat especially. I also mentioned that he ‘detested’ ladies, but that’s just a front because of the wounded pride aspect of it. He knows he’ll never be with a lady of a great house. He ‘hates’ them, but begins to love Ygritte because of her stories, and singing. Now, Jon himself, for Sansa, is her hero. 

In the books, she dreams of someone beheading Janos Slynt. Well, someone does…Jon Snow. 

He’s brave, gentle, and strong.

Point 4: The Stark name..

I wrote a comment on a video a long time ago, stating that Jon and Sansa are the only two who can rebuild house Stark. If Sansa were to marry another, her children would not have the name Stark. Arya herself, has never wanted that life. Bran, he can’t procreate, because his ‘anatomy’ does not work. He says it himself, he’ll never be Lord of anything, he’s the three-eyed raven. 

This is where Starkbowl threw me. They said at the end of season 6, Sansa was pissed because she wasn’t crowned Queen. I didn’t believe that then, didn’t believe it between seasons, and I sure as hell don’t believe it now. Sansa knows if she were Queen, she would be forced to marry a random Northern Lord. Or Baelish would try to get his hooks in her again. She would be sold like cattle once more. I think Sansa was very glad that that wasn’t what happened. 

Now Jon: Yes, it is true that Jon is basically a Targaryen. However, if he were to marry a Stark, he could take her name. If he so chose to do so. She could legitimize him as :Stark: by the only way really…marriage. 

When Jon’s parentage becomes a known fact, and it will, probably in season 8. We saw the way the Northern Lord’s reacted when they heard Daenerys was in Westeros. How will they feel knowing that Jon, their KING, is a Targaryen? They only put him that spot because they thought he was Ned Starks son. Well, he isn’t. He’s Rhaegar Targaryens. They won’t bend the knee to a dragon. But, if Jon were to marry a Stark, his claim would stay strong, and the Stark claim would stay even stronger. Their children would be Starks, the name carrying on. 

Point 5: Their blood relations..

“But, they’re siblings!” False. They are NOT siblings, they are first cousins. And yes, in TODAY’S TIMES, I repeat TODAY’S TIMES, it is seen as taboo, but, back in medieval times, it was considered normal. Even in civil war times, for those who have seen Gone with the Wind, the Wilkes married their cousins. They always did. Melanie was Ashley’s cousin. Also, Sansa was going to marry Robyn Arryn, he is also her first cousin. 

Now, looking at blood logistics here:

Siblings share 50% blood relations.

Aunt/Nephew share 25% blood relations.

1st cousins share between 7-12% blood relations.

Also, the Stark line has married cousin/cousin before. Even uncle/niece before. It was not common, but it did happen. It has happened in the Stark line. Ned’s mother and father were cousins. Tywin and his wife were first cousins. 

“Were will you go?” 

“Where will we go?”

“I won’t ever let him touch you again, I’ll protect you, I promise.”

“We need to trust each other, we can’t fight a war amongst ourselves, we have so many enemies now.”

“Do you think I’m Joffrey?”

“You’re as far from Joffrey then anyone I’ve ever met.”

“You’re good at this, you know?”

“You are. You are.”

“Would that be so terrible?”

“You know him better than anyone, what do you think?”

“You’re abandoning your people! You’re abandoning your home!”

“Until I return, the north is yours.”

“I love Sansa..”

“As I loved her mother…”

“Touch my sister, and I’ll kill you myself.”

^^^^^^(NOT MY PIC!!!)

What does LF know?

“Does she miss me terribly?”

Jon’s expression: =.= bitch please. I will throw your little ass off here.

“I didn’t ask.”

And more to come with Theon, and the Hound later this season.

I think I’ve made my point, loud and clear. 

Also, one last thing:

6.09 // 7.02

So Many Spoilers And Yet, Jonsa Is Still Endgame

Okay my loves. Everyone close your eyes and take a deep, calming breath. Better? No? Well then, let’s continue …

It seems that no matter where you turn, the internet has been brimming with GoT spoilers. Some seem plausible, some utterly ridiculous, others written like straight up fanfiction. Since then, my inbox has been flooded with nervous Jonsa shippers, and while I would love to answer each one of you individually, I’m only one person. That doesn’t mean you should stop sending me asks -at the risk of repeating myself, I’ve just decided to compile all of my current thoughts here.

Here’s your warning right now that this post contains SPOILERS. Whether or not they are factual spoilers, remains to be seen.

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