Nerd Trivia

T thing/ explain to me why Norwegian has two written languages.

psssh why you need t thing WHEN YOU HAVE ME??

Long ago the three Scandinavian countries lived together in harmony. Then, everything changed when the black plague attacked!

Norway was hit especially hard, the plague killed one third of the entire population. And who did the plague completely wipe out? Educated people. Because educated people, pastors, doctors, etc. are usually in a job where they help the sick or bury the dead. And what happens when you’re constantly around a bunch of sick people? You get sick too!

So because Norway was suddenly so much weaker, both economically and martially, and even academically, they decided to join up with Denmark.

An this is where Norway ceased to be a country. The great strong and fearsome viking kings were all but forgotten. Centuries of unions under either Sweden or Denmark had robbed Norway of land they had once conquered, like Greenland, Iceland, the Faeroe Islands, Skaania. All we had left was a thin strip of coast, Svalbard and Jan Mayen.

But then, 400 years later, the age of National Romance happened. Suddenly being nationalistic was a good thing. And the Norwegian people remembered who they once were. Norway was the poorest country in Europe. All the universities were in Denmark. All education was in Danish. If you were someone, you spoke Danish, not that barbaric noise called “Norwegian”. There is no Norwegian nobility, only Danish.

Suddenly France is on fire.

The Americans are declaring independence

Such beauty. Such impress. Such national pride to the people and for the people!

Then Napoleon came along and pulled all of Europe into war.

Denmark joined on Napoleon’s side

Sweden, who has never gotten along with Denmark, backed England up

When England won, Sweden, as one of the winners, wanted Norway

And in the one brief week, between Denmark relinquishing its hold and Sweden taking over, the Norwegians saw their chance and took it.

A couple politicians stuck their heads together and wrote a constitution in only a handful of days. This constitution was heavily influenced by the French one written during the revolution, as well as the American Declaration of Independence. The constitution declared Norway as an independent country, and ever since that day, May 17th, 1814, 17th of May has been known as the Norwegian Constitution day, our national holiday.

Unfortunately, however, the Swedes were not persuaded by a silly little piece of paper and took over anyway, but hey. We tried.

Luckily they were much more lax than the Danes and let Norway basically rule themselves, as long as they followed the law of the Swedish king.

The Norwegians never forgot their brief moment of supposed victory though, and only a generation or two later they staged one of the most peaceful freedom wars in known history and Sweden went “well fuck you, you can have that damn country of yours! Just leave us alone”

sixty years later we found oil and became the richest country in the world but that has nothing to do with the language

ANYWAY, so Sweden left Norway basically to its own devices, and the Norwegians decided they no longer wanted Danish to be the main language. They wanted Norwegian. Problem is, at that time, after 400 years of rule, there was no such thing as anything specifically Norwegian. So they had a dilemma.

One guy, Knud Knudsen, took the structure of the Danish language and mixed it with what he heard the people speak around him. He called it Bokmål

This other guy, this slightly more nationalistic guy, Ivar Aasen (we like him), travelled around the country and found the most isolated farms and villages. The places that had not been touched and influenced by the Danish rule over the past 400 years. These were the thickest and most unique dialects and accents. He mixed them all together and created Nynorsk.

Bokmål means Book-language and Nynorsk means New-Norwegian

Fun fact: They actually held a vote deciding what to name these two languages and Nynorsk & Bokmål won over Dansk-Norsk (Danish-Norwegian) & Norsk (Norwegian) by ONE SINGLE VOTE.

So here they had a problem

‘Cause you see Nynorsk was something that was REALLY Norwegian. Something the nationalists had been pining after for decades, centuries. And it was easy to learn for those whose lives hadn’t been ruled by Danish language for as long as they could remember.

But Bokmål was a mix of two languages, and you know what happens when you mix two languages: It is greatly simplified. This made it easy to learn and it was something “norwegian enough to pass”. It was much easier to go from Danish to Bokmål for those who lived in the cities and had written Danish all their lives.

And while Nynorsk was the one that embodied the goal of this whole language hunt, and the one most loved by the peasants, Bokmål as the “easy way out” for the people in the cities, for the educated politicians and journalists and doctors and pastors who spoke Danish, even though they identified as Norwegian

And this is where they came to a standstill

People who liked Nynorsk used it and refused to give it up for Bokmål

People who liked Bokmål used it and refused to give it up for Nynorsk

and.. well that brings us to today

Though over the years the two languages have slowly been drifting towards each other, becoming more and more alike, Bokmål has also been taking over because it is what is most commonly used in the media. Because the media originates in the cities after all.

Both T thing and I are partial to Nynorsk though we use Bokmål more often in daily life, simply because it is more practical.

And that is why Norwegian is actually two languages.

Fun fact: The basics of Nynork and Bokmål is part of the Swedish curriculum and it makes my students incomprehensively angry to learn about them every single year.

AHH SOMEONE DREW THE CAKE HOPE

*****

@RadSpace_ on Twitter

I feel as though I am missing something here

It’s from a tweet Aimee made LOL @glamourweaver

Still feel I’m missing something. Am I forgetting something significant about Adora and cake?

There is apparently a new meme going around about cutting into things to see if they are actually really elaborate cakes. I have no idea where this comes from.

Oh to remember a time before the Chocolate Man arrived. When the concept of reality being replaced by delicious sweets was ridiculous and not disturbingly plausible.

We were so innocent back then.

This guy always takes his chocolate art to the next level!!... Omg!!

(Source)

You can’t make wood out of chocolate!!

….

….

You can’t make giant matches look that tasty!!!

Got to the end.

Thought this one was just kinda ok.

Then he lit the damn thing.

No.

NO!

NO!!!!

You can't fucking DO this shit chocolate man!

Scorpia: Wildcat! Why is she unconscious?!

Entrapta: Hm? Oh, I think she fainted after she realized that I'm going to be her boss soon.

Scorpia: What?! Hordak's making YOU second in command?! What about Catra?!

Entrapta: No no no, he's not making me second in command of the Horde.

Scorpia: Phew! I'm sure Catra will be relieved to hear--

Entrapta: He's making me QUEEN of the Horde! I came down here to give you guys your invitations to the wedding.

Entrapta: My research has recently yielded some interesting results. I have reason to believe that Horde Prime's clones and humanoid Etherians are more similar biologically than we initially realized.

Bow: That's fascinating! What led you to such an amazing discovery?

Entrapta: Hordak knocked me up.

Adora: Catra you gotta help me! We found some documents Hordak signed when I first came here, and according to Etherian law he's my legal guardian!

Catra: Oh my stars. That's hilarious!

Adora: Catra!

Catra: Oh what's he gonna do? You're a grown woman, not a baby.

Adora: Hordak's not the problem!

*Entrapta busts in*

Entrapta: WHO'S READY FOR A MOTHER-DAUGHTER FUN DAY!!!

Adora: *screaming*

when I was a kid for some reason I thought Lola Bunny's last name was "Rabbit" and that she was actually Jessica and Roger's daughter. And the reason she wasn't in the original Loony Tunes is just that she wasn't born yet

I mean can you blame me. Look them and look at her. She's got a good blend of both of their features.

this is the only good head canon I've ever had tbh

3d printed start gate

For @madgedothorse

Wait for it...

WANT!!!!

"in the original myth medusa was actually -" "well in the homeric version, achilles wasn't -" "no but in the real myth -"

read what you have just written. in the myth. myth.

these were not real people. myths change and shape to their contemporary situations with every retelling. whoever was telling or writing the myth put in or took out something different and new every time it was told. "accurate myths" are not a thing, I'm sorry. 'accurate to homer's version'? sure, go nuts. but they were never histories, and modern adaptations are not wrong for being different.

I'm commenting here cause I feel the "they were never histories" undermines the historical and cultural importance of these stories. Religious stories specifically were not "made up" by people for fun but were created through spiritual experiences, dreams, divination, revelations etc. Those myths are ancient folk stories of a different heritage. These are ancient Epics of a different heritage, which were preserved and passed down through generations and generations of Greeks. Folk tales and religious stories is history. The centuries Greeks of all eras spent to preserve and pass down their ancient texts is history.

I agree that one can be as creative they want with modern stories based on the Greek myths! I'm playing Hades these days and oh boy does it take liberties, but it's okay. The Celtic/Germanic influences show sometimes but I recognise the game has its own style. Any Greek you ask loves Disney's Hercules because the Greek dub was awesome with witty jokes tailored for Greek reality. The inaccuracies don't matter as much when the media is self aware.

So theoretically people can go nuts! But they're not adding to the Greek tradition by any means. A modern Greek myth fic is not connected to the long process of diversification of Greek myths because 1) it exists outside of the culture and its context 2) it's not an organic addition if it happens 2.000 years later , your "contemporary" situation is not ancient Greece and you can't pass it down as they would. Even Greeks know that. Non-Greek writers add to their own literature, however. For example, a Danish author of a Greek myth retelling adds to the Danish literature inspired by Greek myth.

Sometimes I feel people in the west are so caught up in the consumption of these stories in their pop culture they forget how these stories matter to the Greek people, to real people, and they're one of the many layers of their extremely long folklore tradition. Foreigners constantly try to "correct" Greeks online on their own heritage like "umm actually Medusa wasn't a monster", and generally there are condescending attitudes that have effect - again - on real people. Like "Ew your ancestors worshipped that dick Zeus??" / "[something offensive about our national hero, Perseus]" in an absolutely unfunny and unironic manner of speaking by people who claim to "love Greek mythology".

Finally, people are free to judge a Greek myth retelling if it's just a Brazilian soap opera with a few Greek names stamped on (and very incorrectly like in the case of "Kore") and the author claims that their work is accurate. They're allowed to comment if a modern story completely misses the point of the ancient story it wishes to retell while claiming to be revolutionary. It's justified for readers to complain when Greek gods in the story feel more like 30 something New Yorkers rather than deities. I'm allowed to say something against retellings which commodify and sensationalise the pain of Greek women according to the modern western market and paint ancient Greek men as savage woman-haters. (They're not making a point about patriarchy, they're making a caricature of simple people of the time and the victims of that system.)

All of this.

And just to add- I think there is a meaningful difference between portrayals and versions of Greek Mythology that exist as part of a larger literary tradition here in the West, and which were historically part of the Hellenistic *religious* tradition.

Yes, there is no "Greek Mythology Canon", but that doesn't mean that Greek myth has always and only existed as some kind of Fandom space where all myths and retellings are equally valid fanfiction.

Ovids version of Medusa may be deeply influential on modern literature, but it was never part of the religious worship of Posideon, you know? (Ovids retellings were wildly influential on Western tradition surrounding these figures and are wildly divorced from the actual religious practices of the Greeks as a rule. So. Keep that in mind)

And the fact is that the vast majority of "Greek Mythology fans" here in the West, especially America, have grown up with stuff like:

Where these stories are presented as a cohesive, unified collection of fairy tales, a list of trivia questions (who is the god of what and what's their symbol? Name the 12 Olympians! Haha, no Hades isn't an Olympian actually!) without any real discussion of how these figures were worshipped, what their festivals were like, how the versions of the myths we have today have been translated or altered, or anything that engages in the messy history of an oral religious tradition that dates back 3,000 years.

There is a lot of value in understanding what the figures represent in the European literary tradition and as modern symbols and stock characters today, but that is going to be very different than trying to grasp how these stories and figures actually existed within their religious and cultural context.

@fandomsandfeminism Thank you, very well said! 🩵 On the "canon" discussion: Greeks are obviously also aware our myths had different versions depending on the area and time, just like it happens with our ethnic folk and religious stories still. However we base our understanding of an ancient figure or an event on what we've managed to save throughout our history, and what archaeological evidence points to.

There might be a version where Medusa was a blue alien who came down to earth every month to eat thirty children, however we have no evidence for this, therefore we can say it's out of the "canon". On the contrary, what we have is Medusa was born a fearful monster who killed people, so diversions from this are not considered accurate to the Greek tradition. Not that it's bad for modern versions to diverge, but there's definitely a standard for what is considered within the bounds of mythology, as you also said.

I also feel like the ancient stories are well bound together and constructed in such a way that if you alter/remove one piece, the rest of the story is likely to fall apart. Perhaps not fall apart as a narrative but fall apart in its deeper meaning. Westerners making Medusa an unfortunate rape victim makes Perseus a vicious murderer of that victim shifts the story from "young hero saves his mother from getting raped by killing a monster which terrorized the locals" into "young douche kills a raped and wronged woman" 😬 Which then makes many foreigners question why do we consider Perseus a hero to begin with, and then believe that modern Greeks are blind to ancient misogyny. (Splashing a bit of their condescending undertone here)

Things in such an ancient culture are infinitely more complex than these people believe. Sorry, I can't pretend I don't have the Greek upbringing and instead follow modern USAmerican logic. (And this Greek upbringing is not just modern because I haven't read ancient and medieval and Ottoman era Greeks taking it personally about these [insert horrible adjective] stories cause we approach them as heritage. We talk about it but it's not as if we can do anything about how they are)

We have stories and practices that are blends of Christianity and Polytheism these "Greek myth lovers" haven't even dreamed of. (Panagia i Gorgona, Alexander and the immortal water + his Gorgona sister, Charon ke Lygeri, neraides, xotika, 90% of our Christian practices ane festivals, etc etc) There's no "clear cut" transition from antiquity to modernity so our antiquity is largely present still in an evolved form. Add to the equation horrible events hitting us every 20 yrs to which we're kinda used to. With that culture and history there are multiple conventions a Greek accepts without even realising it and this creates a unique mindset that is hard for some foreigners to grasp*. (Like accepting the worship-worthy nature of our ancient gods within the ancient context)

* This goes for many cultures with different philosophies and conventions, I'm just trying to explain the Greek mindset here.

Yes!

The Medusa myth in particular is very frustrating. I know that her image, especially as a tattoo, a very specific and important meaning here in America now, but I wish it doesn't come at the expense of people's understanding of how her myth has been altered through adaptation and doesn't reflect a historical, religious understanding of those figures.

If nothing else, I wish that the many, many, many Greek Myth books I was given as a kid just did a better job of actually saying what specific source/sources they were pulling from. The vast majority of them it seems use Ovid as a main source or other Roman writers. (Which makes sense to an extent- these are the versions that tend to be more complete and were translated in Europe earlier and so have that larger impact on European literary tradition.) But Ovid wasn't trying to create an accurate record of the most common versions of those stories as they were known within religious practice. He himself was creating deliberate retellings inspired by Greek Myth, just as Madeline Miller or Natalie Haynes or even Rick Riordan today.

(Like, it's wild to me that the best known version of Medeas story comes from Euripedes, who might have *invented* the filicide to give his play a tragic twist ending, and doesn't reflect how that story existed beforehand.)

So, as a foreigner, it really feels like one of the best ways to really engage with these stories is to pair that with an engagement with the sources. Who wrote it and when, why did they write it and for whom? Treating these stories as historical artifacts and not just *content*. 🤷

(Though I am not immune to a well researched, well crafted modern retelling. A Thousand Ships by Natalie Haynes lives rent free in my head.)

Does anybody have good book recs for learning about the historical changes, adaptations and retellings of stories and what the most common versions historically were?

I'm particularly curious about sources related to the portrayal of Hera and Zeus' marriage but I'm interested in any of it.

The part about how you have to keep an eye for who the author is and potential biases and influences.

Not a book specifically, but https://www.theoi.com/ is my go to resource.

It's very good about listing the specific sources for all of its quotes, and I love the collections of art that are included. Some of the sources/authors have their own page there, but even if it doesn't, it's a place to start.

I Could Not Stay Silent: Annelle Sheline Resigns from State Dept.

I can’t vote for Biden and Trump would absolutely be worst.  Biden does not deserve another 4 years.  Plus he is too old and feeble.  Sit down Joe, you are done!

 What a tragedy of epic proportion in Palestine and in Ukraine.  Both of these insane conflicts could have and should have been avoided. US foreign policy has been a complete disaster my entire life.  Kids, this is why we are less safe.

It’s easy not to pay attention in America.  We need to change this in order to better hold our leaders accountable.

Gotta relish how brazenly ‘and Trump would be worse’ lives in this headspace. ‘If one guy gets in, it will be bad (so the theory goes), and if the other guy gets in it will be much worse. I have the capacity to impact this in a small way. I’m going to do nothing. This will help the people I purport to care about!

(Also Ukraine should just surrender, apparently.)

I gotta say that the "Biden does not deserve another 4 years" really encapsulates my biggest problem with all the "prostest voters" I have seen. They all view voting as a reward or as payment for a job well done, not as a civic duty and as a process by which we influence society. It doesn't matter who "deserves" to run the country (in my opinion no person can ever "deserve" that). What matters is that there is a job that needs doing and we need to put our efforts towards the option that can do the job better. Withholding your vote doesn't actually do shit except to make the person doing feel big and important because they can pretend to be the boss withholding a paycheck.

My favorite “humans are space orcs” idea is that trope where aliens kidnap some humans for their zoo, except it ends up like Jurassic Park. And the poor Alien Humanologists who were invited to the park are like:

“You mean you locked up a pack of curious, highly competitive persistence predators with NO enrichment in the enclosure? You FOOLS! If you had bothered to throw a basketball or half a box of Legos in there, KE-X9 would still be alive!

“Well of course they climbed the retaining wall! Did you think to study their evolutionary lineage AT ALL?”

The humans would find a way to use the basketball and legos to escape. I mean one time a guy somehow escaped from a prison in Mexico without breaking any laws so his escape would be legal so honestly given enough time the Jurassic park situation is inevitable.

Jurassic Park would be awesome, but now that I think about it I also kind of love love the idea of humans as the alien zoo equivalent of those octopuses that climb out of their tanks and wander around taste-testing other exhibits or throwing sub-par shrimp at handlers. 

Like they’re totally unable to figure out what’s happening because the cameras keep going out, but every night things get moved, or stolen, exhibits are disappearing, WHAT IS GOING ON, they’ve moved facilities twice and it’s still happening, are they haunted, are the ancestors angry, WHAT IS HAPPENING!?

And then a weary humanologist is all ‘… your humans are getting out’. 

“That is impossible.” 

“They’re getting out.” 

“That enclosure is COMPLETELY SECURE.” 

“And yet somehow they’re getting out.” 

“THE HUMANS ARE NOT GETTING OUT.” 

“Oh yeah? I bet you twenty glarks they’re getting out. Stay after closing time with me and I’ll show you.” 

*next day*

“… the humans were getting out.” 

“… why did they keep going back in, then?!”

(In a deeply embarrassed mumble) “They said they weren’t going to escape until they finished their behavioural experiments. Uh. On us.”

two things come to mind:

1 - at our own zoos the MOST notorious jail breakers are the orangutans, who exploit all manner of methods, including literal lock picking. One orangutan, Ken Allen escaped several times WHILE THE ZOO WAS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC without getting caught by watching Zoo employees, even when they tried to disguise themselves as tourists to catch him at it. While he was being “secretly” surveilled, he managed to escape AND show the other orangutans how to escape. They finally found out he was doing some thought-to-be-impossible rock climbing to escape. To fix it, they brought in a team of human rock-climbers to locate all possible methods of climbing out. So. Humans would absolutely be the worst to try to keep contained. Like, “escape rooms” are currently seen as a fun date idea. I’m sayin.

2 - animals that escape most often return to their own enclosure (after all that’s where their beds and dinners are, and if the zoo is any good it is the place best suited to their species-specific needs for miles and miles) after they have had sufficient excitement. Ken Allen the orangutan would escape and wander around the zoo looking at the animals like he’d bought a ticket. So if the keepers were nice, and formed a bond, and the set up was comfy, once the human knew they could get out if they really wanted, they’d probably go back, depending on how uncomfortable/dangerous the alien environment was.

I mean if they were raised in captivity. Wild-caught humans, all bets are off; depending on age of capture a return home could be a full blown obsession, the sabotage of engineering from mechanisms up to entire facilities is a strong possibility, and they may go on a murder spree with improvised or stolen weapons if desperate.

...he is weaving the chocolate. Do you copy, this bitch is WEAVING CHOCOLATE

We are so damn lucky Chocolate Guy has a passion for chocolate and crafting beautiful, lifelike desserts.... because if he chose to put this level of work, dedication, and sheer determination into anything even slightly nefarious (instead of nearly breaking the laws of physics in order to create culinary masterpieces) we would be so epically fucked.

did I really just watch this man cheerfully force a block of chocolate through a pasta making machine?

worst part about getting angry is how much it makes you want to be mean

sorry i said something dickish. a few mildly frustrating things happened to me in succession and it turned me evil

bold talk from someone who knows zuko personally