Don't Label Jin in BTS with Female Pronouns or Automatically Associate Him with Namjoon

Please, don’t call/or imply that Jin is a mom/wife/parent/princess etc.; claim indirectly that Namjin is the only Jinship; or automatically associate Jin with Namjoon as a default, because of these reasons: 1. Misrepresentation of Jin’s personality: BigHit restricted Jin’s personality because they wanted him to have a certain image as being cool, calm and collected until around 2016, when BigHit finally allowed Jin to act like himself. As you can see in recent videos, Jin is much more playful, outgoing, childish and loud. However, the label of mom still remains despite the fact that he doesn’t exhibit the stereotypical traits of a mom anymore. Cooking and taking care of the members does not automatically make him a mother. This is why I don’t want him to be called mom/wife/princess anymore, because you’re misrepresenting who he actually is. All the members say Jin ist the most childish. 2. “But the other members call Jin mom, and Jin has called himself it as well”: Yes, I acknowledge that this has happened; however, J-Hope and Jimin has also been labeled as moms. J-Hope especially have been referred to as the mother-figure much more frequently than Jin. Both J-Hope and Jimin have done actions that can be perceived as stereotypical mom-traits. Why does the label only stick to Jin? Plus they’re calling him uncle now. 3. The appropriate context: If you’re going to label someone as mom, at least it should be in a context where the member actually acts in a way that is stereotypically considered motherly. Instead often what happens is that Jin is labeled as a mother/wife no matter how unlike a stereotypical mother/wife he actually acts. 4. Double standards and hypocrisy: For example, Jin has nearly kissed Taehyung, Jimin and Jungkook but this is still considered a son-mom-moment, with comments like “Mommy Jin, what are you doing trying to kissing your son?”, “Cute mom-and-son bonding moment” or “Stop cheating on Namjoon.” This limits our perception of Jin’s relationships, because they are all reduced to son-mom-moments. If near-kiss-moments had been between any of the other members than Jin, the interactions would not have been interpreted as a mom-and-son-moment. But just because it’s Jin, his interactions are judged differently. In other words, there is a double standard on how Jin is treated compared to other members. It is hypocritical that Jin is judged differently. 5. Limiting the way we perceive Jin’s relationships: It also limits the type of relationships Jin is allowed to have, both romantically and brotherly. The mom/wife label is indirectly forced on people like me, when people continue to comment things like mom/wife. When people comment that Jin is “cheating on Namjoon” or “Mom Jin and dad Namjoon taking care of the kids”, people implicitly make it clear that Jin can only be shipped with Namjoon (even if it’s just a joke), and when people, even if they don’t bring in Namjoon, call Jin mom they are indirectly reinforcing the ship and the role Jin has. 6. Shipping: Worse is when Namjoon or mom jokes are used to promote their ship. Saying that Jin is “cheating on Namjoon” or imply in any way that Namjoon or Jin are in an actual relationship, dismisses Jin’s other relationships with the other members. and implicitly reinforce that Jin can not be shipped with anyone than Namjoon. This often happens when people don’t want Jin to be shipped with anyone else than Namjoon, so they make “jokes” and misgenders him because they don’t want Jin to be shipped with anyone else then Namjoon. 7. Indirectly/Implicitly preventing shipping: Saying things like “You can’t ship mom and son, that’s incest” and “Everyone already knows that Namjoon and Jin is married”, is a dismissive gesture, that is implicitly preventing people from interpreting Jin’s relationships in another way than mom-and-son. People hide behind this “joke”, to prevent Jin from being shipped, brotherly or romantically etc., with anyone else than Namjoon. 8. Stereotyping of Moms: “A stereotype is a preconceived notion about a group of people.” By calling Jin mom/wife, people are indirectly implying that making food and taking care of the members, is how a mom should/and is acting. 9. “But it’s a compliment”: Maybe people mean it as one, but it’s still problematic to perpetuate a stigma about moms, and implicitly about gender roles. 10. Gender roles and heteronormativity: By stereotyping Jin as the mother and Rap Monster as the father, people are implying that there needs to be a “submissive” and “dominant” in the relationship, often in relation with “femininity” (female) and “masculinity” (male). Instead of just being a relationship with two men, people are indirectly strengthening the perception that there needs to be someone traditionally feminine (female) and someone traditionally masculine (male). Even though I don’t believe anyone is intentionally intending to be homophobic or sexist, this is still a case of unintentional and internalized sexism and homophobia, that stigmatize and generalize people. This is heteronormativity. 11. Misgendering: About the princess/mom/wife label, Jin once corrected a fan when she called him princess, he wanted to be called prince. This can be applied to the mom/wife label too. 12. “But we know that he is a man, it’s just a joke”: Jokes can be problematic and harmful, and as I mentioned before, it still misrepresents Jin’s personality, stereotypes him and limits how we view his interactions with other members. 13. “It’s still a joke. Calm down. If you don’t like the comments, just ignore them.”: People are entitled to their opinion, but don’t tell us not react or tell us it’s just a joke, because we understand that it’s just a joke, but we don’t find it funny. Stop trivializing our feelings, perspectives and experiences and blame us for implicitly for being “too sensitive” and “not being able to take a joke” when so many people do not like that Jin is called mom/wife/princess etc. Our feelings should be acknowledged. We should not be marginalized and overlooked, and we need to speak up, because if we don’t, people will continue to call Jin mom/wife/princess. Stop misrepresenting Jin’s personality; stereotyping him; being hypocritical about how you chose to interpret Jin’s relationships/personality as mom/wife/princess when you wouldn’t have done the same with another member; and limiting how we view Jin’s interactions and relationship with the members.

Side note: English is not my first language, so I’m sorry if I didn’t articulate myself well enough. I made a post about this before, but this one is much more organized, and I added several points.

Hello, 

I don’t usually respond to post like this but I did want to point something out.

I think you make some great points about the limiting of Jin’s personality by BigHit. I think you’re completely correct. The guys all act out a role as either visual, maknae, or leader. I wholeheartedly agree that Namjin isn’t the only ship “allowed” or that they are or should be automatically linked.

However, I think the point that you’re making is with shipping specifically and not a gender/pronoun issue.

You bring up gender and heteronormativity and the impact this stereotype is having on Jin. (Because he’s labeled as the mother and RM as the father) But aren’t you also supporting this negative characterization by assuming that Jin as the “mother/wife” has to be or is perceived as submissive? You bring up a “traditional” interpretation of gender but doesn’t shipping automatically challenge those ideas by bringing two males together.

Jin might be mothering/caring but also strong and amazing. Feminine/submissive and strong are not mutually exclusive. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone talk about Jin like that. Almost everyone always comments on how hard he works. While he might be referred to as the “mother” at times no one questions his strength. As you will very well know, people also constantly talk about how handsome he is and how broad his shoulders are. If they refer to him as beautiful it’s because in all objective view he absolutely is and again, beautiful isn’t just a word used to describe women or the female form. Assuming that femininity or a feminine quality equates to submissiveness and weakness is again supporting that stereotype not saving Jin from it or helping challenge it.

While I do take a gripe with having to give one of the members a female role, Jimin said they were married and that Jin was the girl. But this is one interpretation among many and not the only lens by which to examine their relationship, dynamic or Jin’s role in the group.

Ultimately, what I gather from your post is that what bothers you seems to be the interpretation of Jin specifically within the Namjin ship. As a result, this isn’t a question of gendering, misgendering, pronoun misuse or in the protection/benefit of Jin but just a means to silence other shippers who have a different opinion than you.

The guys have been very vocal about different aspects of ARMY and how we interpret their relationships. BTS is actively encouraging certain opinions (like SOPE naming their own ship for example). I suggest that you take a step back and examine exactly what it is about the Namjin Jin/Mom thing that bothers you because it seems that its simply this ship. You don’t seem to have a problem with any other Jinship or any of the other guys being perceived as the “mom” of the group. (I think Suga fixing everything that RM breaks is also a good example) I can’t speak for everyone but when people refer to Jin as the mom (or any other member for that matter) it speaks of the work and care they put in not as a means to emasculate Jin or anyone else.

The guys seem to have a great relationship and arguably can all be shipped together. As long as we are respectful of each other and BTS I think we can OTP and OTP7 to our hearts content.

True. I have to agree with the above comment. And I believe the majority DONT feminize him in the sense you’re thinking. The general consensus acknowledges the masculinity, but that’s also why he’s a great role model.

I’m really speaking for myself as an ARMY who identifies as female, and yet I can only dream of having the confidence Jin does in embracing what others would determine as feminine. So I really give him the title of ‘mum’ as a means of respect not as a means of emasculating him.

In the end, I think ARMYs are well aware they all have their own lives and wish them the best in that. As for shipping, if Namjin isn’t your cup of tea, it isn’t. If anyone tells you otherwise that is a fault on their part, but as for the dynamics of a ship you don’t participate in, I think it’s best to leave that be within that section of fandom.

We’re all ARMYs here, are we not?

I actually thought of this while I wrote the text, but I didn’t want to make it too long, come across as contradictory or make it more confusing.

- “But aren’t you also supporting this negative characterization by assuming that Jin as the “mother/wife” has to be or is perceived as submissive? This is why I wrote “often in relation with”, but as an afterthought, maybe I should have made two different points about it. 1. Submissive/Dominant: I personally don’t think that your gender has any type of correlation with being dominant/submissive; however, I believe that there is an implication—when people call Jin mom and Rap Monster dad—that there needs to be a dominant partner and a submissive partner. This is “often related to” many people’s belief that there needs to be someone feminine (female) and someone masculine (male) in a relationship, and this is heteronormativity. 2. Femininity (female)/Masculinity (male): When people put two males in a relationship, but one of them are assigned female pronouns, and the other male pronouns, this implies that there needs to be someone feminine (female) and someone (male) in the relationship. This is heteronormativity. This is maybe have I should have written it.

- You bring up a “traditional” interpretation of gender but doesn’t shipping automatically challenge those ideas by bringing two males together.“ As I wrote before, those ideas are not challenged, because when you put two males in a relationship, but one of them is assigned female pronouns, and the other male pronouns, this implies that there needs to be someone feminine (female) and someone (male) in the relationship. This is heteronormativity.

- “You don’t seem to have any problem with any other Jinship or any of the other guys being perceived as mom of the group.” Let’s make this clear: I’m personally against all type of labeling of people, and I’m against any member being given a certain role (mom/dad etc.). This is because I think it limits them and misrepresent them as people, and as I mentioned in the text, perpetuates a stigma that have implications and consequences that might impact specific groups negatively. I know this might seem contradictory, because of point number 2 in the text, when I argue that it doesn’t make sense that Jin is called mom, since J-Hope and and Jimin is called it as well. This makes it seem like I want Jimin and J-Hope being called moms instead; however, this is why I structured the text the way I did, with stereotypes, gender roles and heteronormativity later on. I don’t want anyone to be labeled as mom/dad, and I only had point number 2 there, because I wanted to make it clear that if anyone had to be called mom, it wouldn’t even make sense to only call Jin it. This is why I also had point number 3 (appropriate context) there. If people had to call someone mother, at least do it when someone acts in a what is considered stereotypically motherly. I didn’t address the problematic nature of assigning the other members roles (e.g. Suga being called uncle/dad), because my focus was Jin this time.

- “Ultimately, what I gather from your post is that what bothers you seems to be the interpretation of Jin specifically within the Namjin ship. As a result, this isn’t a question of gendering, misgendering, pronoun misuse or in the protection/benefit of Jin but just a means to silence other shippers who have a different opinion than you.” I said in the first sentence: “Please, don’t call/or imply that Jin is a mom/wife/parent/princess etc.; claim indirectly that Namjin is the only Jinship; or automatically associate Jin with Namjoon as a default, because of these reasons:” Jin being labeled with female pronouns was not the only focus of the text. However, I acknowledge that maybe I should have made it clearer, especially with the title.

I think most people don’t mean any harm with labels, but those labels, still have implications and consequences that might impact specific groups negatively. This is harmful and problematic. And as I mentioned in the text, I’m not a native English speaker, so some points may not have been made clear, because I’m not good enough to formulate the sentences, and convey the meaning I intend. However, obviously, when I write about a controversial topic, you have the right to question it. Have a great day!

Stop calling Jin from BTS mom/wife etc.

Can everyone please stop calling him mother/wife etc.? I get that you’re joking, but it’s so overused and not funny anymore. Jin corrected a fan once saying that he wanted her to call him prince not princess, and that can be applied to the mom label too. Also I don’t see how Jin acts like a mom at all, yes he cooks and takes care of them, but he acts equally as young as the maknae line. Jungkook and Jimin has joked about raising Jin, and Jungkook ranked the mental age of Jin as the youngest together with V. All the members say Jin is the most childish, and both Jungkook and V has complained about the fact that he acts like a child. The members has called Jin mom as a joke a few times, but they have called J-Hope it much more frequently, and from their interactions I often feel J-Hope and Jimin are more the care-taking/mother figure types. It’s annoying that Jin is called mom, because he was only called it at a time BigHit restricted his personality and wanted him to act calm, cool and collected because he was the visual, while the more funny and playful Jin is his actual personality. Therefore, I dislike when people call him mom since it misrepresents who he truly is. He isn’t the mother figure in the group, Jimin or J-Hope is. Also I think it’s really inconsiderate of everyone to call Jin mom/wife, since it reduces all him interactions with them down to a mom-and-son relationship which limits the type of relationships Jin is allowed to have, both romantically and brotherly. Honestly, for Jin stans like me, it’s so annoying having someone calling Jin mom when I want to interpret his relationship in a different way, and the mom label is indirectly forced on me when people continue to comment “mom and son moment”. Jin and Jungkook almost kissed once as a joke, but because it’s Jin, it’s a “look, mom trying to kiss son and son being awkward moment.” If this happened with any other member, it wouldn’t be seen as a mom-son-moment, but just because it’s Jin, their brotherly closeness is dismissed, and often, people do it to promote their ship, e.g. Namjoon jokes about Jin being his wife. They implicitly make it clear that Jin can only be shipped with Namjoon (even if it’s just a joke), and when people even if they don’t bring in Namjoon, call Jin mom they are indirectly reinforcing the ship and the role Jin has. The same happens with Jin’s other ships: Jin and V nearly kissed, but it looks like they actually did because of the angle. They have showered together, and it was the first big ship in BTS, but it died off; however, people still reduce them down to mom and son. This also happens with the Jinmin and Jinkook ships, despite the fact that Jin has many cute moments with them. Jinkook, Jinmin and Taejin have all had nearly kisses on the lips moments, but people keep making jokes like “Jin is cheating on Namjoon” and “Jin is such an overbearing mom”, and it’s so annoying. Namjoon is not in an actual relationship with Jin, so stop forcing the ship down our throats. Also it’s extremely hypocritical how if this had happened between any other member it would have been shipped, but because it’s with Jin, the ships are constantly overlooked and slept on. To sum it up, stop misrepresenting Jin’s personality, stereotyping him, being hypocritical about ship-moments and limiting how we view his interactions with other members. (PS. English is not my first language, so I’m very sorry if I haven’t conveyed myself in a articulate manner.)

[FA] every moment with you is like a beautiful dream come true ;

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jungkook rubbing jin’s neck

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