Hello again, Echo fandom!

The return of RNM means a whole bunch of new incoming Echo content and things to talk about. As such, we’ve decided to pull a Liz Ortecho and revive Three Days of Echo like it’s Max Evans on a new heart.

This event will run from February 11th-13th 2022 in the lead up to Valentine’s Day 💕 Each day will have a setting or theme prompt, and your content can involve whatever you want (fic, gifs, meta, pics, text posts, playlists, fanvid, etc).

Prompts will be announced by October. In the meantime, if you have any questions or suggestions, feel free to contact the mods of this event (@maxortecho and @wunderlass).

State of Love and Trust

For @rnmbb. Many thanks to my beta @maxortecho and for @viaomens for this beautiful art! She needs to get out of my head.

M/18k 

Read on AO3

Prepare to be mind blown by Michelle's fic 👽👽👽! This is what the Echo reunion of season 2 should have been like!

Art poster by yours truly, thanks again Michelle, it was a pleasure creating with you 💚💙💜

An eye-opening perspective (Source)

The Emmy’s snubbing the amazingly talented trans women and non-binary actors on Pose ……. a show about trans people… and only nominating a cis man from the show just doesn’t sit right.

THEY DESERVE RECOGNITION FOR THEIR TALENT

The figures are here and detailed. https://rnmscreentimeproject.tumblr.com/ 

Liz only had the most screentime in 3 episodes of s2 and in the season finale she was in fourth place. There is no problem with having some episodes focus on other characters - it gives your lead actors a bit of a breathing room in the marathon that is filming a season in one block. But for your season finale, the focus should be front and centre on your lead. 

Instead, Liz disappears for significant chunks of time, interacted with very few characters, and after she left town and had her final scene, the story kept going for several minutes. This clearly showed that Liz was not a priority and she was actually treated at a similar level to “regular” cast members.

It doesn’t matter what pitch was rejected by the network and/or studio, there were plenty of ways of making Liz more central to the storylines we got, and Carina had no interest in doing that. She didn’t want to tell Liz’s story, her focus was elsewhere, and she is being completely disingenuous complaining about the treatment of Latinx actors in television when she couldn’t be arsed writing a good story for the one she had leading her show.

THE TIMES OF DAY / day to night

I think it is very, very telling about this fandom that most people are concerned with what this news means for Malex, and are speculating about how Tyler and Vlamis may have been poorly treated by Carina.

There is minimal concern being shown towards Jeanine who from what it sounds like was the actor who bore the brunt of her bad behaviour (and it showed in s2). Most people have not mentioned Jeanine at all.

Please do not get on your soapbox and make statements about Carina being “fake woke” and then ignore the apparent mistreatment of a WOC to angst about your faves and your faves alone.

“Xanthe” by TheSleepyNebula on INPRNT

ALONG CAME THIS SONG...

anyways if you’re wanting to be a better ally given everything that’s been going on irl the past ~month, I hope you will be willing to read this.

(also, just so you’re aware before you click the link, medium says it’s approximately a 50 minute read, so like. just be aware that it’s long lol)

- girls like her // nikita gill // dedicated to @visas-marr

RNM 2X13 - Echo Download

I've been having a hard time trying to put my feelings about the Season 2 finale into words, so I've been sitting on it for a few days, reading everyone's metas, and trying to organize and separate my actual thinky thoughts from the angst and heartache. That… is not something I am particularly good at. But I'm trying.

I LOVE this show. The writing is a mess. There's plot holes all over the place. The pacing issues alone make me want to tear my hair out. And dear God do I want them to give these characters and relationships (including friendships) the time and space for the big moments to land properly. I don't know if we'll ever get any of that though. And in the meantime, I love these characters and the story, messes and all.

Everyone knows my biggest love is Echo, so I'm gonna start there.

"I don't know what you thought love was gonna be like when we were 17, but it's not all sunsets and horseback rides."

Back in the OG days, there was one consistent criticism I had with the way they wrote Max and Liz's story: the breakups always felt like bullshit. Max breaks up with Liz because she was afraid of some weird alien shit. Liz breaks up with Max because he's "supposed to be with Tess" and meanwhile he's like, "um… no?" We had "it's too dangerous" when it was dangerous regardless. "We're just different" but not in ways that actually mattered.

Echo's breakup mattered. There were issues and they were not dealing with them. Both of them were sneaking around behind the other's back. Neither was being fully honest with the other.

The unwavering honesty was something that stood out to me in S1. Yes, Max was hiding the truth about Rosa's death. But when it came to the present they were almost laughably open with each other. Liz didn't lie about it when Max asked if she told Kyle the truth. When Max asked what she was doing in the lab, she told him the truth. Once Liz knew the truth about Rosa, she knew everything. It seemed like with that truth out there was nothing left to hide. And once they got together they were a team. Immediately. There's a reason that we had a joking headcanon in the Echo world that they had their first kiss and then they were a married couple.

I really think Max's death not only put that to a screeching halt...it also put them on this path to the breakup. Liz has abandonment issues, and Max made a choice, without her, that resulted in him leaving her alone. It wasn't openly discussed in the depth that it should have been this season, but I really do think it was issue #1. Liz loves Max and she was very happy being with him...but after he came back from the dead she didn't trust him to not leave her again. It was an issue simmering under the surface from Episode 7 until the finale. Liz channeled it all into worrying about his heart, but the underlying theme was a resounding "I can't go through that again". Which is deeper than just the worry over a physical health problem. And it pushed Max away from her.

He grew irritable with her. He started hiding things from her and lying to her. The season just ended and I have no idea if he ever told her anything about his memory flashes! He was obsessively trying to learn about his past and never once discussed it with Liz!?? Because he didn't want her to stop him from using the serum? This is a HUGELY personal thing to Max and you can see how much it means to him. He had tears in his eyes while telling Isobel about it. I mean, that puppy dog excitement, and yet, he hides it all whenever Liz is around.

I think it was around episode 8 that we started talking about how badly they needed to have a big fight. Us -- the Echo shippers -- the ones who WANT them to be together -- were BEGGING them to fight. I hate conflict!! But the lack of honestly and the aversions were just building and building and I just wanted it all out on the table.

They finally STARTED having that fight in episode 11, but then Rosa and Isobel interrupted. In retrospect, sweet alien!Jesus, I wish they could have finished then. Maybe they would have gotten the air clear between them. Maybe it would have put them on a path to healing their relationship before the finale. But they didn't, so the breakup happened. And the thing is… that ending. It just kind of haunts me. Liz waiting and hoping for a grand gesture that never comes. I mean, did Max even know WHEN she was leaving!?! He sure didn't seem to have it on his mind when they flashed to him in that scene. And their fight...was all about what Liz was doing and Max not taking care of his heart. They never once touched on what he was trying to learn about his past. I'm pretty certain that Liz left without knowing any of that.

And the thing is… I'm sort of skirting around the meat of the issue here. Because the biggest problem of all of this was Liz violating Max by studying his biology without consent.

I really hate saying that in writing, because, to me, it's kind of the most horrible part of all of this.

Max Evans has been referred to in jest in this fandom as the King of Consent. He was so careful with Liz, tiptoeing around her looking for explicit consent in Season 1 until her desire for him was made abundantly clear. He only ignored the need for consent twice: both times in the S1 finale. Healing Michael's hand and healing Rosa. But those things both happened after he killed Noah. After he was high on his own power. They were very clearly set up as out of character for him.

Liz didn't give him the same respect. Consent does not just apply to sexual situations and healing. It applies to studying too. It applies to Liz USING Max's biology without his permission. It also applies to administering the cure to Steph without her consent. Liz was very, very wrong here.

And the thing is… it sure didn't seem like the writers saw it that way. It also didn't seem like JEANINE saw it that way. There's been a little bit more balanced quotes from them in interviews this week since the finale ended as far as saying that both Max and Liz were wrong, but they sure focused on Liz being incredible and strong before the finale aired.

The part that confuses me though...like, a LOT, is that the narrative was pretty clear that what Liz was doing was Bad and Wrong. She looked guilty. She was lying and hiding things from Max. And the MORAL COMPASS OF THE SHOW, Mr. Kyle Valenti, repeatedly told her she was wrong. Kyle called her out on her ethical violations even as he was thanking her for saving Steph.

Genoryx was set up as being bad. Liz herself refused to go work for them in the flashbacks because they were morally sketchy. Although, maybe that's the draw now that she is all full of ethical violations. Sigh.

I'm gonna leave this topic now, but I'll encourage you to go read @latessitrice's meta on the subject here:

Okay...so to sum this up? The breakup was coming. We knew it was coming. But it still hurt my heart so much. I haven't seen anyone gif Jeanine's performance of the "I am in love with you. And I hate that right now." But the delivery of that line broke me.

That being said...do I see it being over? Let's give that a resounding FUCK, NO. I mean, sure, they fought. And it hurt. And Liz ran away. Without saying goodbye. And all of that SHATTERED ME.

But...they still love each other even if they both have a lot to work on individually. That’s part of what MADE it so hard.

I am actually stoked for season 3. Two Maxes? All of the delicious angst once Liz gets home. Liz not knowing there's two Maxes and meeting Jones first and not knowing who he is and being vulnerable to his mindfuckery? Or just his fuckery in general. Whatever. I am here for it.

I am here for Liz discovering that something about Genoryx is Not Right. I'm here for her living a normal life and getting drawn back into the madness. I'm here for Max getting more powerful and more alieny under Jones's guidance. And I am here for what I am certain will be an epic reunion once they are back together again.

As a last more positive comment...I’m stoked that we get to have both Max and Liz alive and facing interesting potential storylines this hiatus. All I wanted from this finale, in truth, was to leave the characters in a place that inspired me to want to write for them for the next year plus or however long this COVID-extended hiatus ends up being. And I am so excited for that.

And I have talked enough now that I will go ahead and post this and leave this post as my Echo Takeaways from the finale. I'll be back again with some more gen/bigger picture thoughts later.

Liz Ortecho, Science, and Ethics

This post is brought to you by season two of Roswell, New Mexico, and the inconsistent handling of scientific ethics wherein.

In episode 2x07, Maria says the following:

“Henrietta Lacks, Tuskogee, Holmsberg – the Delucas aren’t the first black people to be secretly experimented on.”

What she’s referring to here are 20th century scientific experiments which involved human subjects (specifically, black people) without them providing informed consent for their involvement in these experiments. In fact, for the most part, they had no knowledge of their involvement at all.

These are and other experiments generated enough controversy (as they should) that science and academic research have long since changed their approach to the point that ethics and consent are now at the heart of all research design. Universities have ethics boards that all research must be approved by, and the core principles of academic ethics is that 1) human subjects should not be harmed by research 2) there has to be a risk/benefit analysis (so for the aliens there are no benefits to being involved in the research vs the risk of exposure) and 3) they must provide informed consent to participate (which means they must understand what the research relates to and what their involvement will entail, and have the capacity to agree with the ability to withdraw consent after research has commenced).

For context – I am currently writing my master’s dissertation. It involves social media research, so is far and away from the kind of biological research Liz does, but because social media data is created by people, it is considered research involving human subjects. For that reason, I had to get ethics approval, and I have to ensure I discuss ethics within my dissertation or I. Will. Fail.

There is no chance that at any time during her schooling for the three degrees she has that Liz Ortecho has not been taught about ethics and their importance. I would be surprised if she hasn’t had mandatory ethics classes. Every paper she has written, all the research she has done in the past, must have gone through ethics boards and discussed the subjects of ethics.

Which is why the words “those were just cells—I wasn’t hurting anyone!” in the finale were so galling.

What Liz is saying puts her in direct contradiction to Maria. She is saying that she feels entitled to take the biological material of other people without their informed consent in order to do her work. This is a direct parallel with what happened with Henrietta Lacks. And the sad part is that I don’t think the show understands that by having Liz take the stance that she has, they are framing her as a bad person and a terrible scientist.

There is no justification of “it’s for the greater good” when it comes to research. That ship has sailed. For Liz to ignore the moral lines and repeatedly cross them for her own interests does not make her a hero, or relatable. It does not make her a badass. It just makes her bad.

We already saw that before Liz returned to Roswell, she lost a grant because she couldn’t get ethical approval for human research. Sometimes this is because the people doing the approvals are overly conservative and dislike the usage of things like stem cells (mentioned in s1), though it doesn’t sound like that was the case here.

Genoryx are offering her work that circumvents that, and yet, that isn’t a good thing! Liz wants her legacy to be as a brilliant Latina woman who paved the way for others to follow her. She wants to be the poster girl for Latinx people in medicine and help improve their overall image within society. Unfortunately, if she is doing work without a solid ethical foundation, sooner or later, that is going to get snatched away from her. No matter how much good any breakthrough she makes does, if somebody digs into it and asks questions about how it was achieved, her legacy would end up (rightly) tarnished in exactly the same way as the scientists who worked on the experiments named here.

Liz should know better—she should know the pitfalls of skirting ethical boundaries as much as she understands the benefits her work can bring. It doesn’t seem that she does.

The most egregious example of this came in the finale, when Liz slipped into Steph’s hospital room while she was sleeping and gave her a cure to her ailment.

This drug is untested. Liz has no idea what side effects it might cause. And Steph was unconscious, so unable to agree to trialling this experimental drug.

We saw what Liz’s serum did to Isobel in season one! Steph feels fine now but what if she does have side effects later on? What if her slow death had become a horrifically painful death? Liz had no way of knowing!

Liz crossed a line, and Kyle should understand that line more than anybody. He should be furious at Liz and remain furious at her, even if she saved Steph’s life. Steph is not a lab rat that Liz can unilaterally decide to experiment on.

(the other side of this is that Steph’s “miracle cure” is going to invite a ton of questions and testing. Steph is now going to be at the centre of all of this, and if she has developed alien mutations or proteins she’s at risk. Maybe we’re going to see this picked up in season three but I’m not holding my breath).

Throughout the back half of season two, Liz has been positioned as justified in her stance with regards to the work she’s doing. Which is nonsense, because otherwise she wouldn’t have kept it secret from Max. But she just isn’t in any way, shape or form.

Does she deserve the right to be a scientist? Of course! She can take that job with Genoryx or any of the grants she turned down while lying to Max. The trouble is Liz’s fascination with unethical research, and the bigger problem is how I don’t think Carina understands that at all. The show has turned our leading lady into an inadvertent villain and rather than treating this as a character flaw, it’s championing it, without understanding how dangerous the message they’re sending really is.

Liz’s behaviour about “her” secret lab has reminded me very much of that of an addict. The lying, the sneaking around, the inability to let it go, or to consider anyone else’s viewpoint.

I agree with all of these points, save 2– Liz *is* being called all the time throughout this season for her unethical behavior, and from multiple people— Max, Michael, Kyle, etc. What we’re seeing is not “she’s the lead so what she does is right”, it’s “being the main character does not mean that her actions are justified, and the healing doesn’t negate the potential for harm”.

The show has shown us why she’s behaving this way, but it specifically counters every seemingly ‘good’ outcome with the concerns about the ethics from all sides.

The only other point I contest is that on multiple occasions, Liz has noted how the conservative bias against her regenerative research *is* what she’s balking against, and why she’s having this reactionary backlash against the ethical concerns— because time and time again, her research has been halted for reasons that are cited as ethics concerns, but have nothing to do with ethics and everything to do with politics and conservative white patriarchal religious hegemony. She’s blinded by that injustice and is now lashing out with deep injustices of her own. She’s far from perfect, and this is a clear demonstration of that.

She’s not wrong that the system is broken.

She’s very deeply, intensely wrong to pursue her research in these deeply unethical ways that are actively, objectively harmful to everyone involved…who happen to be everyone she loves.

Max is right not to go after her. She’s fucked up royally.

And the show is being really, really clear that what she’s doing is not remotely okay. Complex, with a traceable thought pattern? Yes. But endorsing this behavior? Hell no. If the show’s lens were to endorse this, we wouldn’t have multiple characters vociferously calling her out on it, episode after episode, time after time.

Have you seen what Carina is saying on social media? Carina is outright saying that Liz is right and Max is wrong, and this is a feminist issue. That’s what prompted me to write this. Even if the show has accidentally stumbled into calling Liz out, that wasn’t intentional.

Liz was not called out enough by Kyle in the finale for what she did to Steph. Max was framed as wrong for destroying the lab, even though what he was doing was destroying his own biological samples. Every time Liz was called out, she ignored people, and Carina defended her right to do whatever the fuck she wanted.

Unfortunately I do think the show was endorsing what Liz was doing and word of God says that’s what they were aiming for.

Maria DeLuca Weekend - Day One - Favorite Moment

BadAss Maria risking it all to hunt down the alien bomb

listen i love women, i LOVE them. but if u r a feminist & believe that women are capable of anything, u also have to recognize that women are capable of being evil and sadistic and malicious. because the point of feminism is that women are human beings. they are not ethereal beings who can Do No Wrong. women make mistakes and they commit crimes and they hurt people. blindly praising all women for being perfect is actively harmful to people who have been hurt and abused by women and also to women as a group because we are NOT perfect! we are human and that is the whole damn point my dude.

Announcing the second annual Ladies of Roswell, New Mexico Week! Another week of celebrating and appreciating all the wonderful female characters on this show from our leading ladies to our guest stars to our recurring extras. 

Event Dates: July 24-28, 2020

Day 1: July 24 - I’m a Bitch

Day 2: July 25 - I’m a Lover

Day 3: July 26 - I’m a Child/I’m a Mother

Day 4: July 27 - I’m a Sinner 

Day 5: July 28 - I’m a Saint

Everybody is invited to participate in whatever way they would like be that gifs, fanfic, meta, fanvids, appreciation posts, fanmixes, etc. Just make sure to tag your posts with ladiesofrnmweek2020 in the first five tags so that your contribution can be reblogged here.