This show for the last three seasons

Superman and Lois has 10 episodes left to salvage what is perhaps the worst treatment of Jon Kent in modern media and I'm not confident that they'll be able to do it

i can't believe i kissed a tory

if i had seen the transition from sepia to color in wizard of oz in 1939 i would have lost my shit i would've started screaming in the theater

Okay no but like, I am still SO ENAMORED by this transition y’all, ‘cause when Dorothy opens the door of the house onto the colors of Oz, the inside of the house is still sepia toned. And they did that by literally making the interior and the costume and everything SEPIA TONED. You had a double for Judy Garland in a specifically-created sepia-toned dress, in a sepia-toned set, opening the door, backing out of frame, and then the Dorothy that steps back into frame is Judy Garland in her full color costume and makeup, stepping out into the color set.

It’s just

Y’all it’s such a GREAT EFFECT, and this was before computer effects and green screen, it was all practical and yeah it feels like nothing now, but at the time, man, not only was technicolor new, but I’m pretty sure no other movie had done a transition out of b/w or sepia into color, and even knowing it was a technicolor film, that must have just been fucking wild to see! It still is wild to see!! It’s so good.

The technique of switching between double and main actor without an edit is called a Texas Switch and it's still used today, it's very neat to have something so simple yet tricky persist pretty much just because it genuinely looks better to do it with timing than with editing.

Friendly reminder that the S&L writers unironically pitched this and the only reason it didn't happen is because the actress turned them down.

Meanwhile, Jon Kent is in the background driving his truck...

So apparently the writers offered to give Sarah powers and the actress said no. Meanwhile they say they want to keep the show "grounded" when people ask about Jon's powers. Like WHAT? I'm...

No seriously FUCK THESE WRITERS

All the stans claiming that the writers made Jordan “OoC” in 3x12...

Like sweetie no, they just took the toxic traits he’s had since season 1 to their natural conclusion. Y’all are just in shock because the romanticized fanon version of the character that only exists in fanfics doesn’t actually fit on-screen. 

Out of character?! Who the hell said that? This has always been his character...

Sorry but was scene this supposed to be funny? If so, I think they should have used a different take because Jon looks hella uncomfortable here. But also, the idea of a a high-school football coach spending months holding a grudge against one of his old players despite all his efforts to earn his forgiveness and then getting super close and tries to intimidate him is just... ugh.

And then there's the later scene where he makes Jon think he's gonna finally acknowledge him and it turns out to be a fakeout, Jon looks so disappointed and annoyed and Jordan literally laughs! But hey... "Fraternals Forever" right?

Isn't it great how they decided to kick Jonathan down again despite him being kind and doing nothing wrong even though it was set up that Jordan would get humbled...these scenes were a microcosm of the show as a whole

superman and lois asks the question “what if superboy was a whiny cunt?”

Michael Bishop (2023)

You certainly know the finale was written by Todd Helbing...

The previous episode has Jordan being an asshole who really needs to be brought down a peg. There were people saying he was definitely going to be humbled and taught a lesson. He HAD to be right?! But he wasn't. He was given a talk by Clark and that's it.

Whereas JONATHAN was humbled despite not even having an ego to begin with or doing anything wrong! In fact, he does something nice and volunteers to help Coach Gaines set up for the meteor shower to make things up to him and not only does Gaines tell Jon that he'll never forgive him, but there's a whole scene where it seems like Gaines is about to thank Jon in front of everyone raising his hopes, but actually thanks someone else and this is supposed to be funny and they show Jordan laughing at his brother!

It wouldn't be an episode of Superman and Lois if Jonathan wasn't kicked around despite being the kindest person in the world while Jordan gets to walk away from any potential blowback.

I guess we should be relieved that Jordan didn’t bust into the fight half-way and beat Doomsday, but the fight’s not over yet so...

Honestly I was expecting him to get a few blows in that weakened him because I thought Helbing couldn't resist but yeah, he'll either get to do that in season 4 or they'll show him being totally amazing as the 'New Superman' but this time with no weaknesses - something that will crown him as the best of the best and I will immediately switch off. I'm surprised I'm still watching tbh...

Being Superman's son comes with its pros and cons 😅 #SupermanAndLois

If only Jon could have any pros of being Superman's son but all he has experienced is cons...

Every week Jordan creeps further right on the Superman-Homelander spectrum

Homelander doesn’t see those he saves as people, but objectives to complete in order to further bolster his reputation. He sees regular heroes like first-responders as beneath him but pays lip-service to them to appear amicable. He craves the adulation of the public because he mistakes that for the love that he never got as a child. 

What’s Jordan’s excuse?

The difference is that Jordan isn’t a narcissistic sociopath?

Like yes, he’s being a little egoistic, but for most of his life he suffered from serious mental illness and bullying. His superpowers and the saves are like. The one thing he has that make him special, and they come with massive downsides. Sarah can complain all she likes but it’s Jordan who has to control himself every where he goes, for the rest of his life. So Sarah has to lie? So does Jordan, to everyone, every day, by definition.

I dunno. I get what they’re going for, I do, but Jordan was on benzos at the start of the show. The ego boost he gets from saves is hardly a problem to me. It’s natural, and it gives someone with a history of low self-esteem and social anxiety something concrete, something meaningful that gives his life purpose. From a mental health perspective, saves are a great thing.

And in his final scene with Jon, Jon calls him badass. The show wouldn’t have given us that moment if it didn’t agree with it on some level—and, well. Clark is kind of a strict parent when he wants to be, and when he tried to grab Jordan, he made it physical. Did Jordan need to use super strength? Probably not, but he did, likely because he felt he needed to. And Clark’s response was to tell Jordan to never dare do that again. No wonder Jordan didn’t just go to his room, if my dad tried to grab me I wouldn’t just take that lying down, especially at 16.

He doesn’t see first responders as beneath him, either. He apologized for what he said to Jon. Honestly, if anyone was out of line this episode, I’d say it was Lana.

Jordan was stupid this episode, not malicious.

I mean he is a narcissist - he loves to make everything about himself. Not his fault, his parents have instilled that in him by making everything in their lives all about him and ignoring their other child.

“His superpowers and the saves are like. The one thing he has that make him special”

Aww the poor thing - you mean he ONLY has his SUPERPOWERS to make him feel special? You know that’s a lot right? What makes Jonathan feel special exactly?

“and they come with massive downsides”

Like what? There have been zero downsides for him

“So Sarah has to lie? So does Jordan, to everyone, every day, by definition.”

So do all the Kents - Sarah is pissed that she’s trying to cover for him but he keeps making it difficult by bragging about himself

“Clark is kind of a strict parent when he wants to be, and when he tried to grab Jordan, he made it physical. Did Jordan need to use super strength? Probably not, but he did, likely because he felt he needed to.”

Grab him? He tried to stop him throwing his usual tantrums and storming out of the room and Jordan physically assaulted him - he should have had his ass kicked but Clark is a better person than me

“He doesn’t see first responders as beneath him, either. He apologized for what he said to Jon.”

He degraded Jonathan and his training all season like it’s not a big deal, and pointedly said Jonathan’s training isn’t as important because Jordan has heat vision and Jonathan is ‘taking coffee orders’ - he looks down on what he’s doing thinking it’s not as important as what he’s doing. And it actually took Sarah to point out that what Jordan said is wrong and he should apologise because he didn’t think it was wrong and didn’t even think that the fire station might be what makes Jon feel special. And then Jordan didn’t even try to help Jon fix the situation! He actually hindered him by telling him not to tell their parents who could have helped him - no Jordan does absolutely nothing but still gets forgiven because Jonathan is way too nice and it’s only because Kyle found out, that Jon got his job back!

“And in his final scene with Jon, Jon calls him badass. The show wouldn’t have given us that moment if it didn’t agree with it on some level”

Jon sure got over Jordan degrading him constantly really quickly didn’t he? And your logic doesn’t make sense, you’re saying if they have it said on the show, then it must be true. But you then try to say that Lana was out of line so by your logic, if they have Lana do that, then the show agrees with it.

I said Lana was out of line because I think she was. The show also thinks she was right about the Jordan situation—note I never said the show agreed with me—and I also know that because they had her say out loud “Jordan shouldn’t be doing this.”

This show is not morally complex.

You commented on everything—which is fair enough—so I’ll address each point individually.

1. Jordan is not a narcissist. A narcissist is someone who actually has narcissistic personality disorder. It’s a real medical disorder. You can argue Jordan is narcissistic—and I’ll grant, he’s definitely being egoistic—but you’re misusing the term.

2. Superpowers are kind of Jordan’s One thing. I don’t think that’s entirely healthy for him, but it’s true.

3. Yes, they come with downsides. The first season showed them, hell in this season, his x-ray vision coming on was pretty dramatic—likely traumatic to some extent—and he never chose his powers. He takes concealing them seriously—that’s why he quit football and cried after he broke Jon’s arm. He knows has to control his powers every second of every day for the rest of his life if he wants to get some semblance of a normal existence. Not that he’ll actually ever have one, because as long as he has a secret identity, he’ll never actually be normal.

4. I’ll admit I was a little vague. When I said by definition, I meant in the sense of identity. Both Kent boys have it tougher than Sarah because if the secret gets out, *they* will face the most major consequnces, because they’re ones who would be considered aliens.. If Jordan had to keep Sarah’s bisexuality a secret, and if he had to lie, well that could be hard on him. But I’d still tell him tough, because he isn’t the one to face the brunt of the consequences. Sarah can be ticked off at him potentially risking it, but she’s the privileged party here—and Lana immediately running to Jordan’s parents is problematic in my because for what Jordan did I believe it to be both an overreaction and overreach. It wasn’t her place and all Jordan had done is say praise himself for saving two people in response to his friends unknowingly mocking him. Mind you, Clark’s entire goddamn face has been blasted around the world for a generation at this point and Jordan is being forced to wear goggles and a mask and uniform in case he’s seen, but Jordan’s emotional reaction is framed as this big thing when he was actually using a fucking disguise, a disguise that worked, by the way. It was inevitable that he’d be seen: it’s kind of hard not to be seen when doing super-heroics.

5. Yes, Jordan denigrated Jon’s position at the fire station. And after Sarah pointed it out to him that it made Jon feel special, guess what? He apologized *that same episode*. It is a misreading of the text and Jordan’s character to say he views first responders as beneath him because already acknowledged that the profession was worthwhile and his viewing it as so was wrong.

6. Yes, the show agrees with Lana. I never said I didn’t believe that, and I think so because they told me so by having Lana say out loud “Jordan shouldn’t be doing this” and having everyone agree with her. In the same way as having nobody express Sarah that cheating on Jordan hurt him and should apologize meant that was what the show was saying via omission—until they crammed in an apology art the last minute at the end of season 2.

1. Narcissist can also be used to describe someone who loves themselves

2. I agree - that’s literally all his character is

3. He managed his powers pretty quickly, he even controlled X-ray vision in a matter of minutes. So no there is no downside. You’re acting like him quitting football is a sad thing because he has powers when he didn’t care about football and only joined because he had powers to begin with! And he only joined to get revenge and attention - that narcissism is coming out again. And he didn’t seem to feel too bad after he broke Jon’s arm (after he tried to kill someone!) since he got in his face aggressively in the very next episode. And Jordan was never punished for the arm and his mother told him it wasn’t his fault and asked him if he wanted ice cream…

4. Yes the Kents will face the consequences - and Jordan doesn’t seem to care too much about that. He actually states that. Lana had every right to tell his parents that he was talking himself up and risking the secret because he wants praise. And mind you by the end of the episode - because of Jordan being a dumbass - Junior has already made the connection that he’s around their age, lives in Smallville and they probably know him. 

5. Yes Sarah had to tell Jordan to have any empathy at all because he was only thinking of himself. And you saying ‘because he already acknowledged that the profession was worthwhile and his viewing it as so was wrong’ suggests that Jordan did in fact look down on first responders but had to stop only because Sarah told him to and not because he actually thought it - why would he think that to begin with?

6. I feel like you take the text very literally. If a character says something, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the truth or should be taken as fact. Sometimes characters are wrong. Which is why the audience can see that Jordan is a self-possessed asshole and could also see that Sarah was wrong to kiss another girl (and by the way Sarah literally says she did something wrong the second she admits that)

1. I don’t agree, but im willing to agree to disagree on that.

2. I didn’t mean to say that was all his character was. I meant that they are his main focus. I don’t think superpowers are all Jordan’s character is—there is a reason the brother social anxiety got the powers and is on track to becoming a superhero, after all.

3. Sure, he managed to get ahold of them pretty quickly, but that doesn’t mean he still wasn’t poisoned by kryptonite in season one, or that he did spend an entire episode wearing soundproof headphones because of his superhearing. Just because someone gets past asthma as they grow up doesn’t mean it didn’t cause them problems. Further, his powers are why Zeta-Rho possessed him at the end of season one. Seems like pretty big downside to superpowers to me, even if things turned out alright in the end.

While Jordan joining football didn’t end the tragedy Jon’s career did, it was the first time Jordan was accepted by friends. And he didn’t join to get revenge and attention? He saw Jon being harassed for him kissing Sarah and got involved to support his brother, as well as to be pro-social, something that worked out pretty well for him. I would also say he felt pretty bad about breaking Jon’s arm—he had an entire conversation with Lois about it and even said “I hurt Jon, bad.” Like I said, this show is not very complex. When it wants you to know something, it makes it abundantly clear.

4. I’ll give you that Junior is making some very quick connections, but those are, to my mind, contrived to support the episode’s intended interpretation. Again: Clark’s face has been entirely visible to the world for 20 years at this point. That was a choice Clark made. I think it’s unreasonable for them to be getting so ornery with Jordan about the integrity of the secret when not acknowledging that Clark’s entire face is visible.

5. I wasn’t disagreeing with you on him believing himself above first responders. He did (although, really, he wasn’t respecting Jon’s position as an intern, which isn’t exactly great, is it?) And then, that same episode, he learned his lesson and apologized. That is about as simple as character development gets.

6. I do not take the text literally. The text is very literal. For example: in season 1, they ask the question of whether the government should have kryptonite. Clark says they should, Lois presents why they shouldn’t, and in the end, they give the kryptonite to John Henry, which turns out to be the right decision. When he is taken over by Zod and becomes a threat, John Henry is able to use it to fight Superman long enough for him to regain control. Because it was the right choice, the show expresses the idea that Superman should give kryptonite to a trusted individual to both keep it out of the wrong hands and still have it in case he becomes a danger to the planet. The intended interpretation, simple as.

This show is also just somewhat shallow. It wants us to think Lana is cool? It makes her mayor and has Tal say the woman his other self had married must be a goddess. Jordan’s need for a therapist disappears after the pilot, as do his medications and, for the most part, his illness. Moments like Jon telling Jordan calming breathing techniques when Jordan’s x-rat vision comes in pay lip service to his mental illness, but ultimately, the topic isn’t deeply explored.

3x12 wanted Jordan to seem like a self-righteous dick, and so it framed him as one and constructed the situation to discredit his position, despite the fact that Jordan has passed all of Clark’s test and has been making numerous saves for a while now. They aren’t shown because, like Junior, it’s fairly natural for people to see you when you’re doing the superhero thing but they wanted to make their point and by gum they’re gonna make it. Why would they include Jon validating Jordan if they didn’t also want to acknowledge his heroism? Jon calls him badass, recalling Jordan calling himself badass at the beginning of the episode, the presumable difference being that this time he earned it. If that isn’t also part of the intended interpretation, then why is it there?

2. I mean that’s kind of all his character is - he doesn’t have much beyond ‘has powers, uses powers’. His entire ‘development’ is about developing powers and learning to use them lol. I just find him to be a very shallow character.

3. People can be poisoned by anything - you don’t have to be Kryptonian and Kryptonite is actually pretty rare in this universe. Only X-K has cropped up since. And he spent one day with his ears ringing…you’re finding it tough to find downsides to having powers. 

And I get that you’re trying really hard to find noble reasons for his decisions, but he definitely didn’t join football to help Jon. He literally says he joined to push the guys who pushed him around and then he stays because he loves praise. Jonathan even asks him to leave it but Jordan sneers at him saying “You don’t own football, you egomaniac”. And you’re right, this show does tell you what it wants you to know - like in the next episode after Jordan broke Jon’s arm, he gets in his face about talking to Sarah and even punches a wall because of it and this is about 2 days after the arm break. His sadness lasted a good 5 minutes.

4. Junior is not making quick connections, he’s making obvious connections that anyone could make. And Clark showed his face after he had been away for many years and changed, did it as an adult, and he wears a disguise on his face in his regular life. Plus, he didn’t make it noticeable that he does stuff in one location a lot - he was continually going around the world. Does Jordan have any of these things?

5. Why is Jon’s position as an intern not great? It’s literally how you become a firefighter - but I guess Jordan doesn’t know what it’s like to have to work hard for something. Also, what lesson did he learn? The only thing Sarah said is that the job makes Jon feel special (and she had to relate it to Jordan by saying it’s the same as how he feels about his powers because he apparently couldn’t have empathy otherwise). He doesn’t learn a lesson about how first responders are heroes and he’s not better than them, and at no point does he say he believes this either. You keep saying the show is literal, so surely they would have put that in if we’re supposed to think he believes this now.

6.  “Tal say the woman his other self had married must be a goddess.” - I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be a joke since he doesn’t know it’s the small town lady he hasn’t thought about twice since season 1 who also ends up not caring if his other self is murdered.

And Clark and Lois were fine with him going out doing stuff but not stopping and taking pictures, thinking he’s the best, thinking it’s about getting credit and attention (which he has mentioned before this episode) and bragging about it. 

And Jon saying he’s badass is supposed to show that they’re both teenagers who aren’t thinking about long-term consequences, who are both mad at their parents about being babied. They also intentionally ensured that Jon wasn’t there for the fight where Jordan used his powers against his dad, and they also don’t show that Jon knows anything about him stopping for photos either. All he knows is that he went into a tornado, which to a teenager is ‘badass’ since he then asks what it’s like.

“I’m pretty sure that’s supposed to be a joke”

But is it though? Is it really?

Because the entirety of season 2 builds Lana up. I doubt they mean she is a literal goddess, but in a season where Lois takes a backseat so Lana can become mayor and where she divorces her husband who’s kind of a shit head and is at no fault whatsoever, I think that’s another line to puff her up. Tal saying that Bizzaro Superman babbles like an idiot is a joke—his comment on Lana isn’t framed as such to me. I think you’re giving these writers too much credit.

“And Jon saying he’s badass is supposed to show that they’re both teenagers who aren’t thinking about long-term consequences l, who are both mad at their parents about being babied.”

I’m genuinely bemused. If they were both just being whiny teenagers, then Jon’s plot wouldn’t’ve been resolved by re-affirming the fire station’s hazing (which definitely has roots in toxic masculinity, although the show doesn’t seem willing to actually call that out). They could’ve had Kyle acknowledge he was treating Jon differently, but also have it said that the hazing isn’t right and the culture should change. But the show treats it as a culture clash issue, essentially, and in doing so says something that basically amounts to “boys will be boys, and Jon wanting to be one of the boys is his prerogative and basically cool”.

So no, Jon calling Jordan badass isn’t supposed to tell us that he and Jordan are both teenagers unable to think of long-term consequences. That isn’t what the episode is about for Jon, his arc in it is saying something very different from Jordan’s. Paralleling the two in that way doesn’t work because Jon isn’t being a dick. You’re just misreading the show and I don’t feel like taking the energy to explain how if you genuinely believe this.

Thanks for staying civil tho. 👍

I don’t think I’ve ever been accused of giving these writers too much credit lol! But I still think it’s a joke because while they loved showing how amazing regular Lana was, Bizarro Lana was shown to be a psychopath. Clark didn’t mind beating the shit out of her and yeeting her into the sky, I think the Irons’ stabbed her etc. And the fact that Clark didn’t even tell Tal who his wife was says a lot and then the end is Tal in Bizarro World trying to find out who she is when she was likely still on the regular Earth too - I took it as a running joke.

“If they were both just being whiny teenagers, then Jon’s plot wouldn’t’ve been resolved by re-affirming the fire station’s hazing”

Wasn’t the whole point that it wasn’t resolved? Kyle looks rather embarrassed when Clark tells him to stop treating Jon special, and then Kyle doesn’t let Jon really explain things to him and their end conversation has only made things more awkward. And we see Jon is not happy with how things are because he feels Kyle now thinks he’s a crybaby and he feels his parents are babying him. Clark also seemingly didn’t know anything about the hazing, because he didn’t talk to Jon about it at all, so it’s not actually reaffirming that hazing is ‘cool actually’. 

Both Jonathan and Jordan want to be their own man but they feel like they’re being babied and obviously going about it in opposite ways, with opposite attitudes and with opposite desires. And their stories are deliberately contrasted throughout the episode with Lois fully stating it for those who didn’t get it the first time, “we have one son who wants to be treated specially, and one who doesn’t”. But them coming together at the end to lament with each other and play video games, proves they are still children, especially when the last line is Jon excitedly asking what the inside of a twister looks like.

And of course we would be civil, I'm sure you're a cool person!